To really worry about a Tory / UKIP coalition possibility?

[applemac]

Can anyone tell me how likely this is to actually happen?

I have a severely disabled daughter and also have quite severe mental health problems myself so I am scared. Actually I am scared for the whole country. I don't think there are many people whose lives would not be affected by the nasty policies of UKIP.

My friend who is from Scandinavia is worried too about the noises being made about us leaving the EU.

[applemac]

I am shocked, from reading this thread at how unwilling some people are to accept that UKIP are basically Nazis. Their views are abhorrent. They think it's ok for a man to rape his wife.

[sylwright]

I am shocked from reading this thread how unwilling some people are to accept that everyone is entitled to their own views on politics.

I for one think Tony Blair and his cronies did more damage to this country than any other political party I can think of.

How can it be fair that hard working tax payers in this country are not entitled to CB because they earn enough to pay higher rate tax, whilst at the same time their hard earned money is paying CB to the children of EU citizens who don't even live in this country.

If the views of UKIP are abhorrent, then I am definitely on the wrong forum.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

sylwright, luckily, if you're looking somewhere people think it's OK for a man to rape his wife; many, many other forums are available. It's not like the Internet has any shortage of misogynists and racists.

However, I saw today a quote from a late Tory MP;

"There are millions of people in this country who are white, Anglo-Saxon and bigoted and they need to be represented."

...which is in many ways true and a feature of democracy. But it's got me thinking.

I mean, there's no point telling people that European migrants bring in £20-odd billion more than they cost, when their minds are already made up (not that they're racist obviously, of course). So do we just need to accept their views, or... I don't know.

[handcream]

So EU migrants bring in 20 billion more than they cost - really!!!

[AesSedai]

UKIP are basically Nazis. Their views are abhorrent. They think it's ok for a man to rape his wife.

Sigh.

[pissinmy2shoes]

UKIP are not nice
it doesn't matter if they say "oops sorry" when one of their flock make sick comments about disabled people.
they were made.

[Raininginnovember]

To compare a political party whose views you disagree with to one of the worst dictators in history who was responsible for the murder and torture of millions is both ridiculous and offensive in the extreme. I hate UKIP, by the way.

[applemac]

I disagree that it's offensive. They support Eugenics. They think some groups of people are superior to other groups of people.

How, exactly is that any different to Nazi ideals? I hate when people say 'oh it's offensive to compare this to Nazi Germany' to shut down debate.

It was the rise of the far right that allowed the Holocaust to happen. And it could happen again if we forget this fact.

[Raininginnovember]

How it's different to nazi ideals?

Well, they haven't committed genocide for starters.

I'm hardly shutting down debate by answering to the thread I think there is a difference between disliking what UKIP stand for, and believing them to be synonymous with hitler and nazi germany. I dislike UKIP but I dislike people being branded as racist/nazis for supporting them even more.

I would prefer not to be part of the EU: inmigration does worry me and I can't pretend it doesn't, but I won't vote for them. I understand why others would want to though.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

The Nazi party hadn't committed genocide before they came to power either. Nor was it in their election manifesto, oddly

They came to power in 1930 on the back of economic meltdown, and it took till 1935 to start demarcating citizens of Jewish heritage from proper Germans (btw, 51% of UKIP supporters think people of foreign ancestry should be deported, even if they were born in this country)... and it very much went downhill from there.

It pays to listen to what politicians are really saying. No matter how quickly they're hushed up by their party. Because once they're in power it will be too fucking late.

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

UKIP are indeed vile, thick racists and misogynists. But like a lot of fourth parties, in a general election they'll split the Tory vote as the LDs and Greens so frequently split the Labour vote. The Tories need to swing even harder right to get those voters back, but there's a lot of big businesses won't fund that kind of manifesto. The City won't tolerate immigration squeezing now that the economy's improving. Nor will they accept the catastrophe of French import tariffs, the logical consequence of EU withdrawal.


As for the Human Rights Act, the Convention would still be in force. We could rescind that and have a proper police state, but the Duke of Wellington tried that and the country went mad.

[Raininginnovember]

I do realise that boulevard

However, hitler was open about his hatred of the Jews as well as holding them responsible for the state Germany was in. Hyperbole and exaggeration just aren't helpful.

UKIP aren't nazis. That doesn't mean they are a nice, sweet political party but nazis they are not.

[SundaeGirl]

The tories will probably get in or Con/Dem. I can't see people seriously heading to the polls to get excited about Ed.

More worrying is the SNP. How will that actually work?

[FreudiansSlipper]

UKIP are a worry it is foolish to think they are not. But it shall depend on whether their supporters bother to vote lets hope not

but I would not worry about a Tory/UKIP coalition they will not work together they have very different policies and many Tories would turn their back on their party if they joined a UKIP Coalition plus UKIP will not hold that much power

[FyreFly]

Some members of UKIP have come out with abhorrent things, true. But one idiot does not party policy make.

Terry Rooney (Labour MP for Bradford at the time) said that the IRA bomb was the best thing ever to happen to Manchester. I still don't believe the Labour party are pro-terrorism.

[FreudiansSlipper]

but it is a number of UKIP members that have come out with abhorrent things

they have a reputation for a reason

[longfingernails]

A Tory/UKIP coalition sounds like the idea election outcome to me. UKIP would pivot the Tories away from Notting Hill wets and towards Thatcherite steel.

UKIP's red lines should be the priorities of what were once called working class Tories: a slashing of international aid, a repeal of human rights laws, automatic deportation of illegals, huge cuts in income tax, huge cuts in benefits, and of course an EU referendum.

[BoulevardOfBrokenSleep]

Thing is, fyrefly there's not really that many UKIP members in total, so the ratio of 'utter cocks' to 'people who genuinely hope to improve the UK by returning to the 50's' is pretty high.

Whereas your more mainstream parties have a small proportion of utter cocks, but enough non-frothing spokespersons for you to get an idea of their more sensible general plans and policies.

Somehow UKIP's sensible policies have got lost in the stream of absolute bollocks from candidates that makes them look like a bunch of bigots. Unfortunate. Maybe a failure of communication.

[applemac]

Tiggy, I so hope that you are right.

[Backinthering]

I too think that UKIP have a whiff of National Socialism circa 1930 about them. They weren't initially taken seriously either but managed to get into power due to exploiting people's fears and need to scapegoat "the other" during a very hard economic time.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I have caught myself thinking, so this is how it happens, this is what it looks like.
Sundaegirl what are your concerns about the SNP?

[SolomanDaisy]

Despite first past the post, there have been massive changes in British party politics in the past. The shift from the Whigs to Liberals as the second party of government and then the shift from the Liberals to Labour as the second party of government. It's too early to say if this could be another such change or what it would mean longer term. It's unlikely that UKIP could make themselves an electable party of government, but it is possible. And scary.

[MrsRabbitsTwin]

UKIP are delibarately vague about their policies but the ones they do have are abhorrent.

Like the one about prioritising people whose grandparents were born locally for social housing. My mother has lived here for the past 40 years; I was born here and have never lived anywhere else. But this rule would mean that my son, who was also born here, effectively wouldn't be able to access social housing as loads of other people would come further up the queue.

It's a horrible policy from a horrible party, and I wish people would wake up and realise how vile UKIP are.

[MrSheen]

Why is it wrong to limit CB to 3 kids (I doubt it would be retrospective)?

It's an ideology, rather than something that would be actually beneficial. It would affect relatively few people (financially) but create an atmosphere of condemnation to larger families

It doesn't actually mean '3 kids per person' (or 2, or 1, or 0 as has been suggested) It means per woman. Men will be allowed to have dozens, just so long as they don't acknowledge them and spread them about a bit between different women. Why should a man be able to have 10 kids to 5 women and have all of those children in receipt of CB, but a woman only be able to have 2? Or are women going to be able to have more, just so long as they have different fathers and the fathers don't have kids with anyone else? It's the kind of convoluted nonsense dragged up by soundbite politicians, not a reasonable or practical or worthwhile policy.