to think THIS is why you shouldn't complain if you can't take pictures of your DC on stage in their nativity play

[Wolfbasher]

There's always a few threads this time of year complaining about schools that have a 'no photo' rule at the nativity play.

Some children need to be protected from having their image spread around, because there are unpleasant people trying to find them. This was one.

BBC link

Obviously there's no suggestion that it was a school photo that helped this particular abuser to track down this mother and child. But there are children in UK schools today who are at this kind of risk. I just don't get why people think their right to bob about taking blurry pictures/video during a performance trumps another family's safety. Take your picture of your child in costume before/after the performance. You don't need to record every second of it.

We didn't have video cameras when i was a child and i am really not scarred by not having a recording of my second-angel-on-left debut.

Cornito - my point is that there are children and mothers around the country in the same situation - at risk because a violent, abuser is trying to track them down.

in that situation, a school will ask for no photographs/videos at performances. They won't say specifically why, or who is at risk, obviously.

Photographs on social media, or distributed around friends/family is one way that abusers track down children and former partners. Horrible, but true.

Schools also upload photos of the children onto their website. Of course you can opt out, but those who are never included, might feel singled out.

YANBU

At my DDs school, abroad, the parents put all their photos on Facebook as a matter of course, regardless of who is also in the photo. It drives mad and I don't know what I would do if I were in the sitúation mentioned in the link.

MIL, in the UK, does the same. Another family member does "ooooh, look at my rellie's house/car/ whatever type photos on FB and gets narked when told To remove then.

My youngest is Year 6 now but so far through primary school there has been no ban or restrictions for anything they've been in.

However I know that in KS1 now there are 3 children who have been adopted into 2 families at the school so I'm wondering if things have changed for plays, nativities and events that they may be in?

I know the one family in particular are very careful about not showing the boys face on their (the parents) fb profiles for example so I'm pretty sure school may have imposed some restrictions.

A member of our family has a terminal illness. It isn't medically possible for him to attend his child's school performances, however, he is thrilled to be able to watch them later on video. Not everyone with a camcorder is preparing to slap the images all over Facebook.

The head teacher always gives a firm announcement before the performance reminding people of the rules and to be considerate of others.

Of course Love there are special circumstances like those of your relative where it should be acceptable to film a performance. However, for the majority there shouldn't be the need.

My daughters are adopted and for that reason I do not permit their images to appear online or in newspapers as we do not wish their location to be known, especially linked to a specific school.

This is becoming more important nowadays as there is face recognition technology which lets you do things like find similar pictures online to a picture you have.

I do accept parents taking pictures at school plays etc provided the school makes it clear these are not to be uploaded if they include other children. If I were to discover parents not sticking to that, then I would be lobbying the school to ban photos altogether.

I am less worried if we are just 'out and about' because it doesn't tie us to specific school, and you could always be just visiting an area. (Though we always try to avoid press photographers at local events)

And yes, my daughters do sometimes feel left out that they can't be in specific pictures. And I also feel sad there are certain things they can't do (e.g. eldest really wanted to be a carnival princess, but pictures of them go everywhere). But they do understand.

Cornito - my point is that there are children and mothers around the country in the same situation - at risk because a violent, abuser is trying to track them down. In that situation, a school will ask for no photographs/videos at performances. They won't say specifically why, or who is at risk, obviously.

I understand that situation completely and sympathise. But, and maybe I am being naive here, surely the number of people in that situation is relatively few and yet it appears many, many schools disallow this. Are we to suppose that every school/nursery/club that bans this has a child at risk in this way or do some simply ban it because they think they should?

Some will have it as policy in case any children join in the future. It'd single children out if little Jimmy joined the school or nursery and then suddenly photos are banned. Easier to do it pre-emptively.

I agree 100%!!!

You never know x

5foot5

The 'but it's so rare' argument is one that comes up a lot.

There are 49,000 Looked After Children in England at the moment who are school age.

5000 children adopted in the last year. 4000 the year before that. So, let's assume that that is another 40,000 children in school currently who have joined their families by adoption. (Total guesswork, but I would imagine it's in that order of magnitude).

A brief Google suggests there are something like 20,000 schools in England. So the chances would appear to be (from a 5 minute, unscientific search) that, statistically speaking, every school is likely to have a Looked After Child, or previously Looked After Child.

Of course, it won't be imperative for all of these children that no photos appear on-line. But it will be the case more times than not.

And it certainly (tragically) isn't rare.

I am beyond grateful that my youngest is 15 so we were able to film everything and there was no real pressure to out things online.

The school assemblies and plays of my 20s kids are much cherished.

I feel it's such a Shame parents now have to miss out having these treasures. Bloody net!

I completely agree OP. It's not a big sacrifice to make in the scheme of things is it?

One of the mums at my son's school posted some photos of a school exhibition on her FB which featured some of the children. My son and another boy were clearly identifiable in one, doing something they shouldn't have been actually, which I later learned they had got into trouble for. DH and I laughed about it at the time but really she should have known better.

She's one of those FBers with about 900 'friends' who shares everything on her newsfeed and posts every time she farts so exactly the type of person I would worry about snapping away at a school event if my child's security was a concern.

I am divided on this.

Have children actually been found by abusive parents/exs by this means?

IF they have then I agree photos should not be taken. If they haven't then I don't think photos should be banned.

I think this is a signal to noise issue. If there are a only a few pictures on line then it may be easier to find the one you are looking for. If everyone is merrily posting thousands of pictures from school plays then maybe it is harder to find the one you are looking for.

I'm also thinking 'daily mail sad face fotos' which are often sometimes taken from social media...

When my (adopted) DS was at nursery, we had already filled in the "no-photo" consent form, so assumed that this was going to be honoured.
He appeared in the nativity in a local church, and the vicar actually stood at the front and said "Is there anybody who objects to having their child's photo taken?"
Well, as we were sitting in an audience of around 250 (and DS had most of his face covered with a large hat anyway) I didn't object - because I felt that my verbal and very visible objection would be far more identifying than some grainy photographs being posted online. The vicar, however, then followed that statement up with "Thank goodness - it's awful when a minority of parents spoil it for others"
Fortunately I was right on the side near the front, and was able to discreetly move DS away, but I sent a very formal complaint to the nursery and to the church afterwards, and 3 years on, with DS long gone, they still have a no-photo rule during performances, but allow "photo shoots" afterwards with parents who want to do it.

We should never have been put in that situation, and other parents do not necessarily understand reasons that some families have for keeping identifying details (such as location or name of the school) away from images of their children

Swash That's appalling!

IceBeing

A mumsnetter once posted an account of how she was found by a physically abusive ex thanks to a nativity photo.

I won't retell her story, because I could not hope to do it justice, but it was one of the most harrowing stories ever told on mumsnet. Even though she didn't go into detail.

I remember that thread, Queen Tilly. It was awful, and totally opened my eyes to what happens outside my own protected little world.

Swash, I'm sorry you had that happen. Attitudes like that are really unhelpful, and a vicar ought to have more insight into what goes on in people's lives.

Have children actually been found by abusive parents/exs by this means?

It's not just about what has happened in the past but very much about what could happen in the future... We're talking about technology here sndvtechnologybus advancing very quickly.

We are not long off someone being able to scan a photo and there being a way for an application to scour the web in seconds with facial matches of that photo and present them to the user...

That is my main objection.

That vicar is AWFUL. I hope he was reprimanded.

and technology is

The nativity in the church does, however, illustrate another point - that you wouldn't actually be able to ban people taking photos in a public place, would you? Or have any influence over what people do with the photos they've taken.

Dds school send out a consent format the beginning of the school year which says you are happy to have nativity play, assembly, class project photos taken by other people. If the whole class parents agree then photos can be taken, this has never happen as there has never been a year that all parents have returned the forms, never mind them all agreeing.
Come the day of nativity play, some parents think giving verbal consent during the play while being asked to put cameras away, despite being told it's not allowed, is enough and sod everyone else. I've seen parents being asked to leave because they kept sneaking out the camera.

I don't give consent, I commented on a similar topic yesterday, I've always asked people not to post dds pics online, not because I think a peadophile is lurking everywhere but because I wanted dd decide herself if she wanted images of herself online, she's 9 now and doesn't want an online profile or her image online. She might change her mind when she is older which is fine if it's her choice.
I often wonder when it comes to nativity play time how many of the children would actually say yes themselves to having photos taken by the audience.