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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think she has no right?!

89 replies

CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 05:52

Long story but I'm so upset. :(

I'm American. My great great grandparents came over from Finland long ago (I believe around 1910 but I may be wrong). They settled around a lake far up north (almost Canada) and built a house which has now fallen into disrepair.

They had several descendents. We're all pretty well spread out now but a few remained in the little town. My grandmother moved a thousand miles away but always brought her DC (including my father) back to the little town for holidays. My father loved it and when he grew up moved back there with my mother and brother and me. I was eight at the time so it's pretty much where I grew up. We didn't live on the land but about ten miles away. A descendent (my grandmother's cousin) and his wife lived there. We visited them often and so many of my childhood memories involve the lake and swimming and boating.

My grandparents put up a cabin on the lake when I was ten and would spend a few months every summer there. After my grandfather died, my grandmother began spending more time there.

She died last Christmas Eve. She left some money in trust to pay for the cabin's taxes but it will not last long. I've talked to DH and when the fund runs out we (and a few of my uncles and my parents) will split the cost so we can all use it as we all have happy memories and it's what my grandmother would have wanted. I love it there and want my DC to have memories there as well.

The descendent who lived there when I was a child and his wife are long since dead, but his son built a house and has been living there for several years now. He has a grown son who has developmental disabilities who lives with him and it has always been known that there is money set aside so that he will be able to stay in the house when his parents are gone.

As far as I knew, the land was set up so that it could not be sold, and that any proven direct descendent of my great grandparents could settle there as long as they paid their portion of the taxes. Obviously this was an informal agreement as not EVERYONE could live there, but as far as I knew no one wanted to. It's been this way for years.

My mother just told me today that two "cousins" of my dad's (their fathers would have been my grandmother's first cousins, I don't know what that makes them to me) have decided that they are going to sell the land.

I just don't...I'm in shock. They've never, ever had anything to do with it. My parents and grandparents and this other descendent were the ones who paid taxes all these years and looked after the place. It means something to us. Our ancestors never intended it to be sold, ever. I'm in tears at the thought.

The woman leading the charge is a millionaire already. What does she want with it? It means nothing to her and there are people living on it.

Because of the town (it's a tourist spot) the land may be worth a million or maybe even two million dollars. But surely there are at least a hundred of us to split it, maybe more. To me, it's not worth it. I need money more than she ever has or will but I would never sell. I'm in tears at the thought.

Maybe I'm being precious. Maybe I'll get flamed. Maybe she does have the right, at least legally. But oh, it hurts. Just the thought.

AIBU?

OP posts:
KiaOraOAotearoa · 04/11/2014 06:38

Whilst very upsetting, you need to put your emotions aside and think practically. Someone somewhere owns that land. Find out who. Rally as many relatives as you can and see if your grandmother's shoes fit any of you. Then go for it, fight for it.
My family owns land. My granny is one of 11. They fell out more times than I care to remember. It's nasty and it is literally, the survival of the fittest. I am becoming the head of my family, all the responsabilities are being passed onto me. The one rule I am adamant about is we will not sell, it stays in the family till there's no one left standing or one of us will die if we don't get the money. It is for the children, it doesn't belong to me or them. I live thousands of miles away. And got a good lawyer.

CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 06:39

This is "our" lake. :) I didn't take that, it was on google. I've been to that spot many times though. Just looking at it is calming.

Thank you for the advice and the reassurances that I'm not being silly.

As far as how many people actually live there or use it, there is a cousin that I don't know and have never talked to (he's a bit odd, lots of keep out signs etc), then the descendent and wife and grown son (I do know them fairly well and my parents know them) and then the cabin which was used by my immediate family. It technically belongs to my dad, his two brothers, and his sister as specified in my grandmother's will...but that is just the cabin itself.

I'll talk to my dad tomorrow and see what he says. If we need to hire a lawyer than that's what we'll do. One of my uncles is rich and likes a fight. Wink

Thanks again. It was just all sprung on me now and it's past midnight here and I didn't have anyone to talk to.

to think she has no right?!
OP posts:
Sleepysheepsleeping · 04/11/2014 06:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 06:48

I know sleepy, it is all very odd. I guess I assumed that things were more clear than they apparently are, because it's been this way since I was a child.

The cousin who built the house did so on the exact spot of land his parents lived on when I was a kid. So maybe they left a small portion to him, but I don't know.

I think everyone just figured this is the way it's been since 1910, so it will always be. Silly of us, I know.

Kira it made me smile when you said "see if your grandmother's shoes fit any of you." I've always been told I take after her and I guess we'll see.

I don't have much (really any) money but I will fight to keep it for my DC.

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 06:51

Another thing in its favor is that there is an old, decrepit cabin almost directly on the water (just a few feet away). It's not usable right now but the law says you can't build that close to the water anymore...but you can rebuild something that's already there as long as it has a wall standing. So anyone who owned it could rebuild the cabin and have it right on the lake, which would bring in a lot of money. :(

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 04/11/2014 06:58

I think that aside from this nasty relative (and I don't think she has a hope in hell of forcing a sale) that you need to see a lawyer and get something official drawn up about the rights and responsibilities on this property. I know it has all been relatively trouble free so far, but it doesn't hurt to get something formal in place, such as a family trust, to determine who has to pay for what, and who has rights.

mummytime · 04/11/2014 07:00

You really need to get a property lawyer. I know in the UK you gain right just by occupying land without paying rent on it.

BikeRunSki · 04/11/2014 08:44

One of my uncles is rich and likes a fight.

Well that's a massive start. It sounds like there are a lot of uncertainties and issues that are unclear. I'd say you need to get a lawyer involved to clarify and formalise ownership of nothing else.

Apart from land ownership, are there no planning restrictions on development?

RandomMess · 04/11/2014 08:52

I think if you were in the UK people having used the land and paid taxes on it for so many years would have some rights that would stop the land being sold, hopefully it is the same for you.

It's really heartbreaking made even worse by the fact it's done out of someone's greed Sad

Florabeebaby · 04/11/2014 11:57

Oh my that picture is beautiful. I'm Finnish and that reminds me of home so I can understand why your great great grandparents would have settled there.

I would second the finding out of who actually owns the land and whether your cousins actually have any right to sell it. So sad when people do this over money.
Call that uncle of yours and start a fight.

youareallbonkers · 04/11/2014 12:03

What did the will say? Surely the property should be shared between her direct descendants, her children, and their children should wait to receive anything when their parents die?

ChippingInAutumnLover · 04/11/2014 12:13

CY :(

I am sure you could tie this up in a legal battle for quite some time, hopefully she'll either be told she can't sell it or will decide she can't be arsed with all the hassle, fingers crossed!

My first step would to be contact everyone you can, get as many of your family on board as you can. Don't assume what others will be doing, find out.

Good luck!
x

ChippingInAutumnLover · 04/11/2014 12:16

youarerealbonkers there are different rules in different countries re how 'an estate' (everything you own) is disbursed when a person dies intestate (without a will).

HedgehogsDontBite · 04/11/2014 12:17

A quick google tells me that land ownership records are kept by the County Surveyor's Office. I think that would be your starting point. What do those official records say?

BogStandardOldWoman · 04/11/2014 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Worksallhours · 04/11/2014 13:39

Someone or something must hold title to the land, surely. That would be the best place to start.

BrendaBlackhead · 04/11/2014 13:40

Surely it's irrelevant how many people are in the wider family? The inheritors would be the top surviving generation, ie your great-grandparents' children. If one or all are dead, then it moves down to the next tier.

mymummademelistentoshitmusic · 04/11/2014 13:45

They can't sell it if they own the land. If they own the land it's their right to sell.

wobblyweebles · 04/11/2014 14:03

You need to talk to the tax assessor's office to find out who owns the land...

wobblyweebles · 04/11/2014 14:03

You need to talk to the tax assessor's office to find out who owns the land...

StrattersFeeear · 04/11/2014 14:33

Oh no, lovely, not your beautiful cabin;y heart sank when I saw it was you. :(

CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 15:18

Thanks Strats. You know how much I love it...I know it's just a cabin (which we would keep in any case, it would be moved to my parents' land if the lake land sold) but the thought of the lake being inaccessible to us feels unbearable.

I talked to my mother more today and asked her how on earth the cousin who lives there could have gotten a building permit if he couldn't prove he owned the land. Confused She wasn't sure. I'm furious on his behalf...he and his wife are in their 70s now and the last thing they need is worry about what will happen to their son when they're gone.

The woman who's doing this married into the wealthiest family in town and her husband died fairly young and left her a huge chunk of money as well as interest in the company. She doesn't need it! I could scream.

I have mindees right now but later this evening will call my father and see where we are.

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 04/11/2014 15:22

Thank you Florabee. :) The area was heavily settled by Finns and that's what they said, that it was so like home.

My grandmother's generation was the last who learned Finnish...she spoke It exclusively until she was five and went to school. She didn't remember it as an adult but her cousin did; at my graduation party he was in deep conversation with the Finnish exchange student. She told him he talked just like the people at home and his son said he told everyone that for weeks. :)

OP posts:
traviata · 04/11/2014 15:26

is this worth a look?

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 04/11/2014 15:36

A Canadian here. That photo reminds me of our family place in Ontario.

CY have you ever heard of Cottage Life magazine? It's Canadian but I know they have a large American following. It is one of my favourite magazines and makes me SO homesick while sitting here in London reading it!

Good luck sorting out the legalities. How hugely upsetting for you and (the non-grabby, sane) members of your family.

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