....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

But you honestly can't see that, for current members of our armed forces who have lost friends in recent conflicts, the day is about remembering them too?

If course I agree with that! My argument is that remembrance day is for remembering the fallen, primarily of WW1/2.

Not as British Legion states of remembering only British forces

but that should not be remembrance day when they remember their mates who have been killed as meoverhere stated.

But that is not what remembrance day is!

Does it really matter who you remember on what day?

If you loose someone you love you remember them every day.

Rememberance Sunday is a whole nations grief and respect/remembersnce come together.

From the fallen soldier in Ypes, Frsnce or Afgnanustan to the medics and priests who die on the battlefield to the dead sailors of the Falklands and the children killed in raids on British towns during the blitz.

Just remember.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I have no problem with the white poppy people, but I think they need to choose a different day. If you, like my hubby and son and lots of others have lost mates in conflicts you want to think about them on that day. I want to think about my uncle lost in WW2 and great Uncle lost in WW1. I don't want to thinking how sad it was for the people who killed them. Not on that one day. Yes my Uncle was bombing German cities when He was shot down and yes lots ofinnocents were probably killed and yes it was a disgrace.But on that one day,just one day I want to think of him. That he was 23 and he died and My dad missed him until the day he died aged 80.

I think about every one else on other days.believe me I do.But just one day for him.

How will other people wearing a white poppy stop you thinking of your uncle?

why can't they wearit on a different way then I can join them?

There are no thought Police on duty on Remembrance Day. Remember whoever/whatever you like.

Sorry, I don't understand how that answers my question.

Haven't answered the question Dangerous How does somebody wearing a white Poppy stop you thinking of your uncle?
And even if for some bizarre reason it did, then that is for you to deal with, not somebody excercising their democratic right to wear whichever symbol of their choosing.

Because it, in my opinion, is like someone waving a protest banner at a funeral. It is a distraction from the message of the day and in poor taste. Whereas the message the white poppy people are trying to promote isn't a bad message but their timing is horribly inappropriate. It's hijacking another event.

Yes Beanz in your opinion it is, but not mine, and really that is the crux of the matter isin't it. They are opinions nothing more.

My father, who actually served in a war, remembering his fallen comrades in quiet contemplation while wearing a white poppy is in poor taste, Beanz?

I don't think so.

I like to think that veterans who have served in conflict can remember in which ever way they damn well choose.

People who haven't? Well, of course they can too. But I agree with Beanz. I form an opinion of them that isn't necessarily favourable.

The irony is, those that I know who have served couldn't give a damn how people choose to remember.

I think it's a personal choice and people should be able to remember in the way they wish.

I always think of my 4 grandparents. All survived the WW2 but all were in active service in various ways.

I have no issue with the members of the modern military. I have issues with the wars we've fought recently. And there's the luxury of choice that previous generations didn't have.

I wear my poppy for those generations. I wish no ill of modern military personnel, support their choices and am grateful they are there.

HowlCapone, the reason I referred to the poppy not being limited to remembrance of those who fought in WW2 is self-evidently because I was replying to someone who stated unequivocally that failing to wear a red poppy would be disrespecting those who died for us in that conflict.

My father served in the army in World War 2 and was wounded, his brother was in the RAF and was killed. He never wore his medals, he never talked about the war, and he never wore a red poppy. By contrast, my father in law was very vocal about the war and wore his poppy very ostentatiously. The only service he saw was in the Home Guard in the North of England, long after any likelihood of invasion was past. I'm with my father: I donate, but I don't wear red poppies.

iseesheep that is a really interesting and informative post - I didn't realise the military did all that.

It seems like the military has two roles - maintaining order internally (sandbags, fire strikes, terrorism guarding) and externally (peace-keeping work overseas). I think it's the non-medical overseas involvement that gives me pause; I worry that we are there to pursue our own national agenda as much as to provide aid.

Wow, icimoi, I thought I was the oldest living Mumsnetter!

Someone up thread mentioned that red poppies only honour the British dead. Last week I was in Vienna and there were various shows, exhibitions and demonstrations put on for Vienna Day. We found ourselves at a military exhubition outside (of all places) the Hofberg palace. (Few can see that balcony and not register the historical significance!)

It was a modern exhibition. There were people from all over the world, including various army units doing drill formations to music, so lots of uniforms, tanks, examples of field hospitals etc. Thankfully they had made a temporary stage for the speeches!
I didn't wear my red poppy to Vienna. I did see a few there, including at the military fair, but I chose not to wear mine because I was there with guests and because I have a different set of difficulties to deal with. The atmosphere was professional and friendly, the crowds relaxed and interested. They have clearly moved on from WWII and are part of modern task/peace keeping/defence forces. I was glad to see rhe poppies there because of the location and if I am there again I would wear mine.

I did note that there was free information, lots of food for sale, lots of people to talk to (in German) including someone in a bomb disposal suit but not a great deal of fund raising in evidence, or charities asking for money. I couldn't imagine something like that happening in the middle of a similar sized city in the UK so publicly.

'I wouldn't get a white poppy because I think that would be making a political statement and that's not what the poppy appeal is about.'

Except, that's exactly what it is about these days. The annual Poppy Appeal has been increasingly politicised every year; various governments all the way back to Thatcher have invoked the imagery of heroism and patriotism and appropriated the poppy as a symbol of their commitment to 'fighting from freedom' or whatever.

The sad irony is that they've only been able to do this as the actual veterans of WWI and WWII have died out, otherwise they'd be properly held to account for their dissembling rhetoric.

What really gets to me is the historical revisionism that underpins this cynicism. WWI is now being touted as an heroic and necessary war to fight for our freedom. It was nothing of the sort; it was, until very recently, universally recognised as mass-slaughter for the sake of imperial folly (lions led by donkeys etc'). It does the servicemen in question a disservice to pretend that it was anything but a venal misadventure and a gargantuan waste of life.

To hijack this simple message and conflate the memory of (and nostalgia for) past wars with modern interventions (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria) is dishonest and manipulative.

Attempts to demonise the wearing of white poppies plays directly into this kind of propaganda. Anyone who really cared about the lives of servicemen (and the civilians who invariably die in much higher numbers) would be happy to demonstrate their opposition to futile wars.

'I wouldn't get a white poppy because I think that would be making a political statement and that's not what the poppy appeal is about.'

Rally? What do you think would happen to an aspiring politician seen without a poppy this week?

Babysham, well said. I agree with what you say about WWI. However, I wouldn't apply the same language to WWII. So if the white poppy stands for all wars being unnecessary, I cannot in all conscience wear one. (Ironically, one of our family members is used on the publicity material for the white poppies, and he felt the same way!) If the white poppy just stands for unnecessary wars, then who decides which ones are or are not the necessary ones? Historians and politicians?

It used to be that for many, the red poppy stood for all who died in wars, not just those who died in service.

My father was a pacifist.