....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

My husband is Forces. Neither of us could care less whether you wear a red poppy, white poppy, purple poppy or sky blue pink poppy. It's personal choice.

But, what has concerned me in this thread is the poster who has suggested that she/he'd wear a red poppy only to support the fallen soldiers and surviving soldiers and their families of past wars, not the modern military because it was their choice to join up. The modern military does so much good but the only thing anybody ever focusses on are 'illegal' wars.

If you want to see the back of and/or not support our modern military then please remember the sort of things that you'll also see the back of/not be supporting:

Helping to eradicate ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Bringing a workable peace to Sierra Leone.

Sandbagging your 3 bed semi in the South East (there's a few of you out there!).

Providing cover for the fire service, ambulance service, prison service, petrol tankers when they all exercise their democratic right to industrial action (which the Services don't have).

Intercepting multiple Russian bombers in the North Sea at a second's notice.

Counter narcotic patrols in the Caribbean to try and keep our country as drug free as possible.

Providing security at the Olympics at a moment's notice (and doing it with a massive smile on their faces even though they'd had to explain to their kids that unfortunately they'd be going on their only holiday that year alone. Again.).

Air/sea rescue.

Support to the UN in various places all over the world to try and make this world a safer place.

Deploying to West Africa to set up decent field hospitals to treat Ebola victims properly.

That would all be gone in a second if we didn't have our modern military. I wouldn't want that. Would you? Would you want to be a country which shuts the doors and says 'lalala I can't hear you' with your fingers in your ears? Most people don't and that's why the majority of the modern service personnel sign on the dotted line.

Phew! I feel better now.

Fantastic post Isee

I would also like there to be better support service for others who suffered in WW2 especially. My DM was in the Land Army - at age 16 she gave up her schooling and scholarship to Guildhall and worked the land for years to feed the country.

No service charity will support her now.

Unlike my aunt, who joined the WRENS and spent the entire war in Chatham frying sausages.

I know who made the greater sacrifice and who deserves at least equal support. Doubtless there are many civilians who did work of equal value (firewatchers for example)

RBL. SSAFA. Change your criteria?

So in that case, your white star wouldn't work for me.

If the PPU 're-branded' and said the White poppy was for the Remembrance of civilians killed in conflict, or for the remmembrance of other forces killed in conflict, I'd wear one.

I really cannot imagine a member of the British Armed Forces wearing a white poppy to remember other forces killed in conflict, if 'other forces', means forces that were or are the enemy.
Though maybe you are referring to Allied Forces, not enemy forces.

Also, I would like Remembrance to be completely separate from politics or the provision of services to a discrete group.

I think wearing anything other than a red poppy on remembersnce Sunday by default is begging others to ask you what it is. That makes it all about you and your feelings

Best not wear one at all if you cant wear a red poppy on that one day of the year.

Any other day wear what the hell you like. Or on that day not wear one at all.

And thank God so many people were brave enough up lay down their lives so we could argue the silly toss.

^^^^
Iseesheep
Can I add to that please. In addition an awful lot of young soldiers thst my husband was involved with come from disrupted childhoods and the military gave them stability, training and a good chance in life. These young people didn't join up to go and kill people,they joined up to improve their own life chances and make a positive contribution to society. They didn't deserve to be blown up or loose limbs for this but too many did. We now need to support those they left behind.
RBL support people like Lee Rigby's son. To say you don't support the modern military is too simplistic and very naive. We still need them weather you believe in war or not. And believe you me I don't believe in war,I have too many relatives on war memorials for that.

I really cannot imagine a member of the British Armed Forces wearing a white poppy to remember other forces killed in conflict, if 'other forces', means forces that were or are the enemy.

That shocks me I would hope that all lives lost in war, soldier or civilian, friend or enemy, were equally worthy of remembrance.

To say you don't support the modern military is too simplistic and very naive.

I think there is a difference between supporting the military personnel, and supporting modern government military decisions.

I think most British Soldiers would wear a symbol to remember enemy personell killed. Most realise that they didn't want to fight and be killing any more than they did. My hubby said all the Iraqi soldiers he met in the first war were really nice blokes and he liked them a lot. The soldiers don't choose the conflicts. They follow the orders that are within the rules of war. They know it isn't personsal.

I really cannot imagine a member of the British Armed Forces wearing a white poppy to remember other forces killed in conflict, if 'other forces', means forces that were or are the enemy.

Perhaps... for just ONE DAY A YEAR... they're busy remembering their friends that died?

I think there is a difference between supporting the military personnel, and supporting modern government military decisions.

I agree 100%

I really cannot imagine a member of the British Armed Forces wearing a white poppy to remember other forces killed in conflict, if 'other forces', means forces that were or are the enemy
Perhaps... for just ONE DAY A YEAR... they're busy remembering their friends that died?

It would have to be a different day. Remembrance day needs to be separate.

Modern government military decisions have been made by governments chosen by the electorate and have been for some time. The choices they make are in direct response to the demands we make from our society.

Another reason I wear a red poppy is for the stain of blood on my hands as a voter. I think that to try and distance yourself from this fact by adopting a pacifist symbol is somehow a shirking of responsibility.

isee that's a great post and that's my experience too. Anyone changed their minds after reading it?

This is what I posted on the other thread -

"I feel differently about conscripts than I do about those who enlist, not a popular view. If you voluntarily join the army and take the "King's Shilling" you do so knowing the risks and also knowing it can be a good career.

In WW1 men like my gt uncle who had never left their villages were shipped overseas to die "like cattle" in a war they didn't understand, and for which they were ill-equipped. Sent to their deaths by those whose lives were never at risk. A whole generation were "butchered and damned". Their lives had barely begun.

No one in our family wears a red poppy. Gt uncle's mother wouldn't and we also choose not to.

This doesn't mean I don't respect those who died in WW1 and WW2 it means I don't respect those who sent them."

My father was in a reserved occupation but volunteered for WW2. He saw things he could never bring himself to talk about and lost good friends. He would never wear a red poppy (for family reasons, the association with Haig) or march to the memorial at our church. His medals were never taken out of their boxes, let alone worn.

He wore a white poppy in remembrance of those lost in both wars. He spent the 2 minutes silence alone in quiet remembrance of those lost. And prayed that there would come a day when there would be no wars.

How dare some here say to wear a white poppy is disrespectful? They who know nothing of the real suffering of war or have never seen the suffering of those who did serve. My father (and me) remember those who died with honour and respect. But have no respect for the likes of Haig who forced the sacrifice upon them.

isee brilliant post. Exactly.

Sorry Dangerous, I'm not sure I understand you correctly.

You don't think it's right that people remember Forces Personnel that died... on Remembrance Sunday???

Sunna- quite poignant.

My dad didn't want his medals either.

You don't think it's right that people remember Forces Personnel that died... on Remembrance Sunday???

No I don't. As far as I am concerned remembrance day is about remembering the true brutality and horrific reality of WW1/2. I mourn all the lives lost whether they were soldiers or not, and no matter where they came from.

Sunna my family suffered horrendously in both wars. Grandfathers, great aunts and invited and both my parents who were evacuated.

Your choice to wear a white poppy and of course your fathers too but we would find it to be all about inviting questions to do so on rememberance Sunday and wholly inappropriate but each to their own.

That's what freedom is all about.

ISeeSheep, fantastic post. Very well said.

Pactecum, one of my jobs in Iraq was the reception and control of Iraqi forces captured or surrendered. I became friendly with a number of them - they were there doing their job as was I. I had no hate for them then or now. One of the 'bosses' when I was over there now employs a couple of them (as a civilian). Lots became paid interpreters whilst the war was ongoing as well. I'd wear a poppy for them, and I'm sure my colleagues would too.

Itsall

I don't debate that Remembrance Sunday should be about remembering all of the victims of war, from wherever they come.

But you honestly can't see that, for current members of our armed forces who have lost friends in recent conflicts, the day is about remembering them too? Really?

Yes and my grandads never ever got their medals out or talked about war too. My dm still is affected by her evacuation nightmares.

No winners in war are there.

You misunderstand me completely.

I think that a white poppy day to remember all those who died in war is a good thing.That we should support peace with a symbol of a white poppy to remember the dead of all nations, military and civilian, enemy or ally. and that members of our forces would wear a symbol to remember fallen friends and foes, but that should not be remembrance day when they remember their mates who have been killed as meoverhere stated.