....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

The Legion's aim is to support the troops and remember the military dead. Remembrance should be about all the victims of war, military or otherwise, and avoiding the mistakes which consistently lead this country again and again into damaging and unnecessary wars. All three Iraq conflicts, Afghanistan and Libya have been hugely costly, wasted so many lives and (in my view) have only increased the threat to our national defence. It seems obvious to me that the current spread of ISIS is directly a result of our actions taking part in the illegal Iraq war. It really saddens me that there was no substantial opposite to new British bombings in Iraq, it's as if the Government never learns its lessons.

I also find it totally hypocritical for the Legion to accept sponsorship from arms manufacturers, companies whose interests are only served by continual British military action.

pax when I said today I ment today as in the news that troops will now deploy to Iraq for training purposes, that's today's troops in Afghanistan work to train a afghan army, to protect civilians. The Afghan civilians are terrified of British retreat contrary to popular belief, they are fed up of Taliban rule, and their families being threatened by the Taliban, but they know less British boots on the ground will mean the rise of all these things again. There sons face threat of kidnap their girls suppressed and uneducated they can see it coming.

the initial Iraq conflict labelled the illegal war was not what I was referencing to, perhaps I should have been more clear about that.

I don't see all abuse being directed at white poppy wearers. Red poppy wearers have been called "war apologists" in the last couple of hours. That's hardly polite is it? If I sift back through the thread I would find more examples.

While you're searching, just look at some of the things people have said about white poppy wearers......attention seeking, juvenile, insensitive......the list goes on!

The RBL isnt trying to subvert the country or anything like that, it's just trying to make some cash for the servicepeople and their dependants that cant get it from other avenues. More power to their elbow, they are doing something they shouldn't have to for people that shouldn't need their help - smas with all other charities

eve, I see your point and I agree that the RBL shouldn't have to be in this position. However, they have agreed to let their name be linked to a watered-down, sanitised version of a powerful anti-war song. There seems to be a certain amount of resentment over this point, not just from me but out there on the web, which implies that the RBL risks alienating some of those who would otherwise be supporting it. So to me, that's a poor business decision.

Since the choice to endorse a nice, poppy-type song was surely made in the interest of accruing more money (which is fair enough), I think they have miscalculated. I think more people will dislike than like it and that it will not achieve its goal.

Plus there's my personal feeling of distaste whenever someone covers a good song and turns it into a mewling echo of its former self, but that's by the by.

That is an excellent post Dowahdiddy and pretty much sums up how I feel too! Wearing a red poppy does not make one a "Warmonger" (the fact that one is even permitted to express that opinion on here is thanks to the people who lost their lives to bring it about). If it weren't for the people who have fought and died for our right for freedom and democracy, no forums would even exist (yes, including Mumsnet). We would all be marching about in uniforms with blue eyes and blonde hair, speaking German and brandishing swastikas.

I would, however, wear a white poppy, because of the appalling way service people were treated during WWI - shot for desertion, etc. Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful.

I wouldn't wear it to make a point about "Peace is the way to go" because we all know that peace would be the ideal way forward. Unfortunately, that will never happen. Fighting, in one form or another, is inevitable.

It seems apparent from this thread that those who are involved in the Armed Forces are the ones who have a problem with the white poppy wearers.

So on one hand they are fighting for the values of their country, which is a democracy but absolutely abhor and loathe the silly white poppies and presumably the people wearing them.

Would a white poppy wearer feel safe being in a pub in a town like Aldershot?

In theory, I would think that those people who buy red poppies from the RBL would feel just as angry towards those of us who make our own poppies as they do towards white poppy wearers. After all, we're not obviously donating.

It feels like the only way to say 'Look, I am just REMEMBERING THE FALLEN OK?!?', without indicating support for current military personnel/engagements, is to make your own.

Not saying that current military personnel don't deserve support, as they assuredly do. But I dislike having my support for the people misinterpreted as support for all engagements overseas.

And no, paxtecum, I think a white poppy wearer would not feel safe in Aldershot!

No, paxtecum, don't put words in to people's mouths.

I said, and I know others have as well, we don't have an issue with the white poppy but as there are 364 other days in the year I think it should be worn on one of those.

Why wouldn't a white poppy wearer feel say in Aldershot? You tell us!

I wear a white and a red. My children are allowed to decide whether they want to do the same at 13 (an arbitrary age I chose when my eldest wanted a white poppy when she was 6 and I thought she was too young to make a decision like that for herself) My ds is wearing a red and a white for the first time today. He has already fallen foul of people at school for objecting to them sharing "Britain First" posts on Facebook, and got into a serious fight with a boy whose family are well known local EDL supporters. I have my fingers crossed for him rather........

Just to be clear, I do not think for a moment that red poppy wearers are more likely than anyone else to be Britain First and EDL supporters. Sorry if it sounded that way. What I meant is that people like that are likely to take the wearing of anything but a red poppy as an affront.

I got proper evils from someone on the bus when I wore my mixed red/white poppy to work the other day (now restored to plain red while I ponder my position on this). I dread to think how much more overt/covert hostility you'd experience in a predominantly military town.

Why do you suppose you'd get hostility in a military town Plumping?

Because if you don't wear a red poppy (or worse, wear a white one), it seems (from this thread and other sources) to be taken to mean:

A) You are anti-war, unlike all these warmongering bastards who surround you, and wish to make it clear.
B) You don't support either military people or the engagements they are involved in.

White poppy wearers often do not actually think these things. They seem to mostly be thinking 'I don't want there to be any more wars please - let's try to make that happen'.

However, I wouldn't wear a white poppy in a place (like, let's say, a military town) where I suspected that people would assume I thought along the lines of points A and B, because I don't want to cause offence/increase my risk of getting punched.

Because squaddies, like other young men, are notoriously reasonable, peace loving and devoted to open discussion, exchanges of view and a live and let live approach to life. Particularly after 5 pints.

Absolute poppycock (pun intended) no one cares in the grand scheme of things what you do, and what utter bullshit that you'd be unsafe in a military town, what do you think they are going to do, lunge at you? it's absurd.

stop sterotyping, that's all this thread has been, red poppy wearers love war, military action is always bad, military people are horrible and want to stop debate because they are "heroes" ( fuck, I hate that term)

Do what you want, just don't shit on anyone else's parade and think it all cool and hip to shout that your doing so from the rooftops.

Hak after 5pints your more likely to find my dp asleep in a bush somewhere, man can't drink for toffee, and I know for a fact many of his colleagues wouldn't give a shot if you wanted to tattoo a white poppy to your forehead they would just think your a cunt and move on with their life's.

again more stereotyping

stop sterotyping, that's all this thread has been, red poppy wearers love war, military action is always bad, military people are horrible and want to stop debate because they are "heroes" ( fuck, I hate that term)

gingercuddlemonster if you'll stop to read my post then you'll note that is not what I said.

Admittedly I am not too scared of being punched in the supermarket but covert hostility (long stares, unfriendly faces etc) is still not pleasant to experience and I'd rather not court it.

"Warmongering Bastards" Fucking hell!

I don't think you would have any problem in a military town, people in the military tend to not judge (or even notice) on things like that as far as I'm aware. At a church service on Sunday it might be seen as a challenge, but not necessarily the way you imagine. Just as someone cannot make accurate assumptions about why any individual wears a red or white poppy, you can't make assumptions about why someone would react badly. If it's for the kind of reasons Hak gives, then I'd be sure to wear a white poppy all the more! I'm reconsidering wearing a white poppy on Sunday for the reasons Fairy is giving.

I would judge someone who was wearing a white poppy at this time of year.
i would think they were an attention seeker.
tim and place and all that.

We have been informed on this thread that some members of the Armed Forces absolutely abhor and loathe the white poppy.

We have read of a white poppy wearer being spat upon.

I was wondering if a white poppy wearer would be confident of safely walking round a military town.

Presumably they would feel safe walking round Glastonbury.

I had no idea until I read this thread that there were such strong feelings againsy white poppy wearers.

Here are some phrases against them and the white poppies:
Disrespecttfull and distastefull
Bad taste
Smugness, naivity and disrespect
loathe silly white poppies
Smug and santimonious
White poppy is absolutely abhorent
Like a protest banner at a funeral

I was going to wait until next year, but I've got myself a white poppy. I'm just About to go out now. It's pinned on my jacket.mI have also made a donation to war child.

DS1 would have a discussion with anyone about the white poppy. He is very, very intelligent and incredibly open minded, oh and reasonable.

He wouldn't go up to someone to start the discussion, nor would his mates, nor would DH or his colleagues. You see, most of those in the Forces love their jobs and want to keep it. They have worked really hard to get there, trained hard and achieved what they wanted to. Yes there are the rogue few who will fight in a pub, but most won't.

It's another massive, untrue generalisation by those who have not a clue about them!

Piss - this is the time to wear the white poppy. That's kind of the point.