....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

I think it's ok if you're 15 and think that you're being clever and making a statement. Once you're a grown-up though, you should have more of an understanding of the symbolism of loss and wear red or nothing.

Best comment on here.

None so blind as those that do not wish to see.............

How ironic. I see Celticlass still hasn't answered my questions on what she would have had the troops deployed to Iraq do.

"I think it's ok if you're 15 and think that you're being clever and making a statement. Once you're a grown-up though, you should have more of an understanding of the symbolism of loss and wear red or nothing."

Best comment on here.

My father (decorated WW2 "hero") wore a white poppy. He was grown up and saw unimaginable horrors, he knew far more about war and remembrance than those posting the ignorant and insensitive remarks here.

Do you include this lot in your 15 year old attention seeker category? And Harry Patch? Thinking about Harry Patch must make some people's brains fuse...........

Sunna My father too. I agree with your summation of some of the posters on this thread.

Not sure why you think that matters though OP? That song is simply a way for the RBL to make a bit more money for Servicepeople and their dependants. It won't make that much, won't get to number one and be a hit single after all - and once the Management Company/Joss Stone/Jeff Beck/Eric Bogle get their cuts, the RBLs 40% isn't going to amount to much is it?

The RBL isnt trying to subvert the country or anything like that, it's just trying to make some cash for the servicepeople and their dependants that cant get it from other avenues. More power to their elbow, they are doing something they shouldn't have to for people that shouldn't need their help - smas with all other charities.

And going back to the original premise of this thread - that's why I buy Red and Purple poppies - the money raised by the sale of them helps the people and animals I care about. White poppies from the PPU only make money for the PPU.

Hak I would rather not see a very good friend depreesed because he is a double amputee with visual loss and deaf in one ear, but he sacrificed those limbs when he raided a compound who were making bombs to plant in a school in Afghanistan that dared to educate young girls.

Maybe he should have objected and allowed those girls to be blown to bits...

Well, I'm wearing red. It symbolizes loss to me. We have lost people and I want to honour and remember them - so I wear a red poppy. I have no urge to 'prove a point' at this time.

But everybody is different.

...and I've had first hand experience of the horrors of war too. Not my father or grandfather, me. So has my DH. We know full well the horror on a battlefield, the devastation caused by human beings against each other. I'm lucky, my injury was minor compared to others - and well, I'm still alive, but the RBL and CombatStress helped me. Donating to the RBL helps the people that need it - it's payback.

I wasn't aware of this till just now. I think it's a good thing that they are being allowed to do this.

The RBL isnt trying to subvert the country or anything like that, it's just trying to make some cash for the servicepeople and their dependants that cant get it from other avenues. More power to their elbow, they are doing something they shouldn't have to for people that shouldn't need their help - smas with all other charities.

^Exactly

The RBL spend £1.6 million per week on the welfare of service people and their dependents. Money is raised all year round but this 2 week window of the Poppy appeal is the opportunity to raise as much as possible. I see where that money goes and I see the hardships faced by the people the RBL support.

Ah, just seen that Hak had already linked to it. Sorry.

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what many of you think missions in Iraq and Afghanistan today are? Or any modern military involment is?

Do you think they just go out on a walk shoot up some civilians and call it a day .

The RBL does fantastic work. And sadly very necessary work. The problem is that the original meaning of the red poppy is being hijacked to such an extent that not to wear one is considered un patriotic. And I do object to their monopoly on remembrance.

I am aware that there are service people and ex service people on here. However, I don't think that means that they can use their experience to attempt to shut down discussion.

Who are you aiming that pointed comment at Hak? I haven't seen anyone on this thread trying to shut down discussion - this thread is rather long for that don't you think?

It's not unpatriotic to not wear one what crap, many people don't for many reasons, but spouting abuse at people who do wear one and calling them war apologists is the issue. Going out of ones way to make some politically cool point is a issue. It's all just a bit cringe worthy and makes it look like your trying too hard to be cool and outhere.

However, I don't think that means that they can use their experience to attempt to shut down discussion.

But it's ok to cite a relatives in order to do the same thing?

It wasn't aimed at anyone, EveDallasRtd. There are always attempts to shut down conversations about White Poppy wearing, pacifism and any questioning of the absolute rightness of "our boys" and the campaigns our government sends them on. The "well, if you knew what I know" is a regular tactic. The "how dare you dishonour our heroes" is another. Your little stunt this morning was a new one. But it is possible both to honour the dead and support the living without buying into "Dulce et decorum est.........."

The people who are making the red poppy political are the ones who keep spouting the "war apologist" crap, the ones who say they are forced to wear them, the ones who want to go out and make such a massive point about why they don't wear them.

The vast majority of people wear the red poppy because they want to, because their family or friends have been touched by war, or because they just want to remember. People know where the money goes and they are quite happy with that.

meoverhere as far as I'm aware relatives have only been cited to refute the claim that wearing a white poppy is disrespectful to those who served.

I mentioned that my late father wore a white poppy, not to close down discussion, but to refute the ignorance of this statement

I think it's ok if you're 15 and think that you're being clever and making a statement. Once you're a grown-up though, you should have more of an understanding of the symbolism of loss and wear red or nothing."

Sticking head above the parapet...

I deplore the fact that if you are in politics or show biz, you have to wear a poppy. I dislike this, because it makes choosing to wear a poppy meaningless, or as some posters above have implied, stupid/just following the crowd.

I wear a poppy (red variety) for a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with following the crowd/group think. Looking around at the people I pass in the street (London), the overwhelming majority of people aren't wearing any colour poppy, so the pressure isn't on the general population, it is only on those on show, as it were.

I'm not hugely enamoured of the PPU and by extension white poppies for a number of reasons. Never again is a very laudable aim, and one we should all hope and strive for, but there can be (not often, but occasionally) a very high price to pay for such an aim, one many are not prepared to pay. Those in the UK had the luxury (for want of a better word) of not having their country occupied - I have always wondered how many conscientious objectors would retain their values (which I do not mean to denigrate here) had there been fighting on mainland Great Britain.

I can see from posts above that many people consider there to be irrevocable ties between poppies of the red variety and support for military action that they disapprove of/imperialism/colonialism/etc. That doesn't exist for me - and I don't mean to try to claim some intellectual supremacy by saying that, and I would be grateful if others wouldn't infer stupidity, aggressiveness, war-mongering or malleability in return.

I don't see those who wear a white poppy as being disrespectful, though some are, just as there are those (BNP etc) who misuse the poppy, while the majority of the population holds no brief for their views.

Stopping there before I move on to conscripts v volunteers v those already in the army etc, because otherwise I'll never finish this already too long post.

I'm genuinely interested in knowing what many of you think missions in Iraq and Afghanistan today are?

The Iraq war was an unjust and illegal war.
I know that several British Army Majors officially put on record their opposition to it.

It was not fought to protect the UK.

I feel very sorry that soldiers lost their lives, limbs and good health fighting that stupid war, but it was not done in my name.

All the abuse that I see on this thread is all directed at white poppy wearers, not red poppy wearers.

What little stunt Hak? My mistake that I immediately reported and also apologised for do you mean? How paranoid are you FFS? It was an accident. Having had the very same argument with you for years, it's pretty bloody obvious who you are/were and I auto-replied. Simple as that. No stunt required.