....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

Ooops, I lie, it was Sunday, and here is the show. Sunday Morning Live.

White Poppies

I was at a concert last night, full of people approximately twenty young younger than me. There was a lot of white poppies visible. It was lovely and really uplifting to see. I'm getting one for next year.

Fairy - but you are specifically excluding my grandmother, who died while serving, because originally people such a her (women) were not considered worthy to be included in the haig fund's remit. I am aware that a good deal of rewriting of history has taken place since then, but since I know my history I'll stick with my white poppy and wear it when and where I choose. As my father did.

So what about the wearing of a white poppy for all those consciencious objecters who were unarmed and killed while stretchering off wounded troops, or who risked their lives to avoid taking any part in a war they believed to be unjust and avoidable?

Yes, they most certainly do deserve to be remembered. However, in my opinion it should be done on one of the other 364 days of the year.

So I must automatically be excluding the women because the haig fund did in the first place? Okay!

No, if you have thought about what you are doing and why you are doing it you can be demonstrating remembrance or thought for whoever you want by wearing or not wearing a poppy. But there is a historical dimension to this and the ignorance of so many people of the origins of the red poppy and the origins of the white poppy does rather support my default view that most people who wear poppies haven't really thought about it at all.

The white poppy is not in competition with the red poppy, it needs to be worn/seen at the same time to reflect the plurality of views that exist around the issue of war, remembrance etc.

The (it must be said hugely successful) campaign by the red poppy people to 'own' remembrance is the most reprehensible aspect of this whole false orthodoxy in my view.

Nail on head, Rabbit!

Rabbit I shall be at remembrance service on Sunday morning with my DH in an RAF uniform. DS1 will be miles away at one in his army uniform. Believe me, I completely understand about the red poppy, I am not ignorant about it, and I have given it a heck of a lot of thought. Especially as one day, one of those red poppies might represent my husband or my child!

The (it must be said hugely successful) campaign by the red poppy people to 'own' remembrance is the most reprehensible aspect of this whole false orthodoxy in my view.

Beautifully put.

If anyone's got a spare few minutes, please could they watch the programme AnnieLoebster linked to, and say whether they thought Neil Faulkner was rant and shouty? The segment starts about 20 minutes in........

Another white poppy wearer here. I wear it as a remembrance to those who died fighting wars, in particular those conscripted. I feel that the red poppy campaign has developed into a pro military / political movement, and is misused by politicians to promote support for all our misguided and disastrous modern military campaigns. It's sad how these days it is taken as a statement / insult not to wear a poppy. The Legion don't object to white poppies, so I'm not sure why anyone else would since red poppies are ostensibly for their benefit. I don't wear the white poppy to donate to the PPU, but instead donate to victims of war.

The extension of the red poppy to cover modern conflicts is something else I have fundamental issues with.

The legion does object, a bit. It's very keen to point out that it and it alone is the custodian of remembrance. Well - not as far as I'm concerned.

I don't much mind what people chose to wear, but it does get on my tits when people say they don't see why we still have a military having not informed themselves of the non-combatant roles that they also carry out. Fair enough if you are aware of that, and you think that we can do without performing those duties or that they should be given to another agency (who, though?), but to make some of the statements on this thread from such an uninformed and privileged position really winds me up.

The (it must be said hugely successful) campaign by the red poppy people to 'own' remembrance is the most reprehensible aspect of this whole false orthodoxy in my view.

I feel that the red poppy campaign has developed into a pro military / political movement, and is misused by politicians to promote support for all our misguided and disastrous modern military campaigns. It's sad how these days it is taken as a statement / insult not to wear a poppy.

There are some excellent well-phrased statements on this thread that I will be stealing for future use

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04p21l3

This is the show. About 20 minutes in.

Rabbit totally agree with your points (and excellently put), I was just quoting from their website "We have no objection to white poppies".

On that website, just below their mealy mouthed 'we have no objection' comment they also say 'the Legion is the only organisation which acts as the national custodian of Remembrance' which I think is an outrageous and reprehensible comment.

They also say they don't want red and white (or red and purple) poppies sold alongside each other 'because it might confuse the public'. Well, I suppose they do have grounds for thinking the public are easily befuddled since their own campaign of misinformation and misrepresentation has been so very effective. But still. It's rude.

I didn't think he was at all ranty and shouty. I actually watched the programme on Sunday and thought all made their points well. Watched it again and still feel the same.

I don't understand why people have issues with the red poppy covering modern conflict. Men and women lost their lives in them so are deserving of remembrance imo.

national custodian of Remembrance

WTF?! I refuse to be told how I'm allowed to remember people. Fuck that shit.

White poppies to me say "smug quasi-intellectual Guardian reader who thinks they are more socially and politically aware than the average citizen". To me, it's making the death of ordinary men and women into a political statement, which is inappropriate and disrespectful

Well said, Annie L. We went to war in 1939 because we had no choice. the idea that we could have stopped the Nazis any other way is ridiculous, and in my view a demonstration of the limits of pacifism. I would never wear a white poppy.

" To me, it's making the death of ordinary men and women into a political statement, which is inappropriate and disrespectful"

Anyone who doesn't think the wearing of a red poppy is, for many, a political statement is extraordinarily naive.

Anyone who doesn't think the wearing of a red poppy is, for many, a political statement is extraordinarily naive.

For the majority it isn't. Most people are able to separate the politics from the actions of the military. Most people don't support the BNP or Britain First who are the ones who are trying to make a political statement out of the red poppy.

The majority of the people who are wearing the red poppy are doing so as a mark of remembrance and respect.