....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

Hakluyt

I'm genuinely interested. Can you sum up - in a nutshell - what the political statement is?

And who is making it - and by doing what?

Some people have made reasonable points as to why they wear a white poppy, some sound a bit ranty, some are speaking from positions of ignorance or ill informed perspectives. All of that, despite how much I disagree with most of it, is OK because we live in a democracy.
My red poppy reflects my gratitude for the sacrifice of those who made that possible.
My support for the RBL reflects the support they gave me & continue to give others.
Remembrance is personal, not political.

LadyFairfax
To some extent rememberance has to be political, that way we (hopefully) ensure it doesn't happen again.

Ok. For many people wearing a poppy is a mark of respect. For many- perhaps more, it's just something you do because it's November- they don't think about it at all. For anyone even slightly in the public eye, it is an essential- regardless of their views- because they would be crucified by the mob if they didn't wear one. I have a friend who appears moderately regularly on the telly- he says that if you're not wearing a poppy, a studio minion will rush forward and pin one on you from a box, then take it back at the end of the programme. Look how heated people have become on here- imagine a politician not wearing one and think what would happen to him.......

"Some people have made reasonable points as to why they wear a white poppy, some sound a bit ranty,"

And the red poppy wearers don't?

I don't understand why people have issues with the red poppy covering modern conflict. Men and women lost their lives in them so are deserving of remembrance imo.

Isn't the difference between those who have made their own decision about joining the forces, understanding all that that entails, and those who were conscripted and very ill-prepared?

I am not saying that both don't deserve remembrance, but that there is a material difference in the reasons for individuals going to war.

So - what's the political statement? I don't understand.

All I get from that is some bosses get a bit overzealous about making their staff wear them in order to 'keep up appearances' (which I agree happens and disagree with)

But surely the media is to blame for any shit storm that happens afterwards? Not the RBL or the government? And certainly not the modern day military.

I know some people think the red poppy is a nod of support to modern day conflicts.

But I honestly can't believe anyone thinks that someone who wears a red poppy supports the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Do they?

I don't support the wars, meoverhere but I do support the armed forces and I will be remembering the men and women killed in those wars, on Sunday.

Another one furious that the RBL dares to assume that they are "the custodians of remembrance". Typical military arrogance.

Of course they aren't.

Fairycaravan I've never understood that stance. The only way those illegal and immoral wars were allowed to take place was because those men and women were prepared to take part in them. No separation for me..

So Celticlass2 - tell me...

Should the entire army have stood down when it was decided Iraq was illegal? Bearing in mind a number of them were there already at that point, how do you anticipate they should have come home? Walked?

Or should they all have been jailed in Irag?

Or should they have had the international law knowledge to understand the war was illegal even before the UN declared it?

Should our military be able to choose which orders they follow and which they don't?

Pragmatically speaking how should something like Iraq have played out in order to satisfy that argument?

Absolute rubbish celtic!

Ah, I see just following orders.. Now where have I heard that before

You haven't answered my question.

For me, the good things the British Army did in the past simply don't outweigh, or even balance, the bad. So I'm not interested in wearing a poppy to commemorate an institution that, for example, had an semi-official policy of reprisals against civilian populations in Ireland - British citizens don't forget - just after the Great War. Just no.

Missing comma there: British citizens, don't forget.

Celtic, go away, wobble your head and think that through.
Dawn, fair one.
Those who appear to speak from an ill informed position appear ranty to me. I don't doubt their sincerity, but their beliefs are often contradicted by the facts. Some of the things said about the RBL on this thread fit in that category imvho.

I'm often very proud of our armed forces - every time they pile in and help when there has been a natural disaster somewhere in the world, for example. There is no doubt that many many things they do are amazing and as I said - I'm often very very proud of them.

Remembrance though is something completely different. And there is certainly a difference between the conscripts who participated in WWI, WWII and to a certain extent in various conflicts in the 50s (through national service) and career servicemen and women today.

No lady I don't think I'll oblige. You obviously don't like the truth huh. Your problem though, not mine..

Lady - we have quoted from their website.

I think maybe I'm missing a bigger picture here but for me personally the red Poppy's meaning is simple.

I wear it to show that I am thinking of the people who have died in conflicts over the last century. I wear it to show I am thinking of family members who lost their lives in both WWs - both as soldiers but also at home in bombing raids. I wear it to show I am thinking of a boy I knew at school who was killed in Iraq in 2008. I do not wear it with thoughts of 'war' generally or the politics behind war, or to remember war. I wear it for people.

What is the difference Rabbit because I am sick of hearing this on MN, yet not one person will say what it is!

My son passed out a month ago. He's probably one of these "career servicemen" (as I suspect is DH as he has served 27 years). DS1 chose to join up knowing that he might go to war, knowing he could get horrifically injured either physically or mentally. He knew he would probably get treated like shit by his employers, he knew he would work ridiculously long hours, he knew he would spend years of his career away from home, he knew he'd have to make huge sacrifices, and yet he still chose to join up.

It's just as well people like him do join up, because if we they didn't we could go back to the conscripts. Would you rather that?

The red poppy is explicitly about british service-people (formerly exclusively british servicemen). The white poppy was established to remember the death and sacrifice of all including women, civilians, non-British people, the bereaved etc. And to express support for the hope that it would never happen again.