To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

"I joined a feminism thread on mn once and it was about how every man on earth is a rapist."

No, you didn't. That was an article in the Daily Mail about what "feminists" are like. It probably also mentioned dungarees and hairy legs.

The old me used to a dominant poster on there. It does have some very good posts and threads.

However -I used to get too involved in certain threads and that was damaging my mental health. I feel a lot better avoiding it now. There are "certain" topics that I have a massively different POV to many posters on there - and I can guarantee they will always turn up on those threads despite appearing to be quiet elsewhere on MN.

I generally keep off because you are not allowed 'choice' - the dominant posters can't understand that you can have the same information and come to a different conclusion- it is always that you are ignorant and if you were 'educated' you would, of course, make the same choices as the dominant posters!
I live my life as a feminist but it is quite clear that this isn't enough- I am the 'wrong' sort of feminist.
The one word that turns me right off is 'patriarchy' - my eyes glaze over and I know that it is utterly pointless making a comment.

"I generally keep off because you are not allowed 'choice' - the dominant posters can't understand that you can have the same information and come to a different conclusion- it is always that you are ignorant and if you were 'educated' you would, of course, make the same choices as the dominant posters! "

Please could you give some examples?

hakylut

Why do you need examples? Are you saying people are lying about their personal experiences on there?

It's a bit like a woman talking about sexism and a bloke demanding examples.

Needascarf- happy to explain about the pubic hair thing- but I will then be told that feminists never talk about anything else......

I've posted on there a few times, but there appears to be a tremendous amount of navel gazing going on and frankly it gets a bit dull on there. When it moves away from the rather intense theorising it can be OK - but the same names crop up again and again, and the gene pool becomes a bit narrow.

Feminism should be inherent in our thinking and behaviour, rather than something that sits separately. I tend to find the rest of MN far more amusing, interesting and diverse.

Hakluyt
Please explain the pubic hair thing.

"Why do you need examples? Are you saying people are lying about their personal experiences on there?"

No, I'm not. But I just want to know what we're talking about. Because I personally have never seen the sort of behaviour described and it's hard to discuss it in the circumstances. Obviously, I am very sorry that people feel that way, and I would like to find ways of that not happening. But I can't change if i don't know what to change.

I answered originally but I also think my days of debating feminism have passed a bit

I'll still fly the flag and stand up against shite like victim blaming and anti choice posts but I don't feel the need to engage in wider debate

I did that in my teens, 20's and 30's - I am a feminist, I am raising 3 girls to be feminists - I don't need to question myself much or others

I guess that's why I don't go over much - I had those debates endlessly in the 80's and 90's :)

Needascarf - removing pubic hair is not anti-feminist. Any woman is entirely entitled to remove every speck of her pubic hair, or none at all and for it to be total non-issue. However, the removal of pubic hair is a feminist issue because women are expected to remove it, due to porn, and are made to feel disgusting and unsexy if they don't. Men on the other hand, are not expected to remove it (though many do) and are not shamed for having hairy genitals. So, pubic hair is yet another way in a long list of ways in which women's bodies are controlled and made to seem unacceptable by society. Similarly with leg hair - if a woman strode down the street with hairy legs, it is likely she would get plenty of nasty comments. Women are expected to modify their bodies and are expected to look a certain way and are shamed if they don't. It's a way of controlling women, of making them feel scrutinised and not good enough. There is nothing at all wrong with shaving any of your hair off, and it's certainly not anti-feminist. However, the problem with shaving is that women don't feel they have a choice in whether to do it or not. It should be just as acceptable for a woman to go out with legs covered in hair as it is for them to go out cleanly shaven. But it's not.

Hakluyt has just shown exactly why I stay off. I have explained why ,but that is not enough- apparently examples are needed. I expect they are needed to show that basically I am the 'uneducated' idiot who needs the instruction of the wise! I am not giving a list that will then be nit picked through.
I explained why I keep off- it is how I am made to feel so I don't want another dose which is what will happen if I continue. It should be enough for anyone that feminist threads make me feel that way - and to my mind they shouldn't.

This reminds me that I should hide the feminist threads. I don't post on there because there are too many angry posters who jump down your throat if you have more moderate views than them. It's a shame because it's an interesting topic to discuss. You also can get the impression from it that you have to hate men Obviously, not from everyone but it certainly seems like it from some.

Anyway, I'm off to hide the topic.

Although it is worth mentioning that women are more likely to judge hairy legs on other women than men.

I'm not going to mention names because it will out me. But I know that certain threads on there attract certain posters who take an uncompromising view on things and will discuss it in a way that is very difficult for certain people.

Suffice it to say their attitude was enough to make me never discuss a certain issue on MN again.

You really wouldn't change it if you knew, Hakluyt Or it would be a first!

I have on one occasion been told to go away- my views were not wanted!

"Although it is worth mentioning that women are more likely to judge hairy legs on other women than men."

Really? I don't have experience of this because I don't know one single woman who goes around with hairy legs so I've never had a chance to see whether it's women or men who judge more.

I think the majority of the members posting on the Feminist board are what puts others members off.

The thing that I think some posters struggle with is that feminism is a particular viewpoint. There is a lot of variation within that viewpoint of course but if you come on the feminism topic and say "there is no sexism" or "women aren't discriminated against" you will get a strong response because that goes against feminism itself. It seems logical to say that if you don't agree with feminism then engaging with it will be frustrating.

"I think a lot of people seem to have taken a view of 'choice' shaped by the mainstream media which is itself anti feminist even when it says the opposite. So I can see where the confusion comes from!"

"The FWR board never attacked me or insulted me, they educated me. Wonder if some people posting on here just can't tell the difference?"

These sorts of things are why I stay away from the feminist boards... It just seems so bloody condescending.

How precisely would you change 'it' Hakluyt? You can't police Feminism or dictate to other posters - and there have been plenty of threads exactly like this one, as well as posters on the Feminist thread who have challenged the more robust views on there. It's not as if the regulars aren't perfectly well aware how they are perceived at times.

I can see how it seems condescending Somewhere. I, for one always try to engage in good faith with all posters who come on the board. But I do give up when it becomes clear that the person doesn't understand at all what feminism is and isn't interested in learning - in that case I suppose "education" is the right word, because it is about learning.