Lady with severe learning disabilities ruled by judge that she can give consent to sex

[Aeroflotgirl]

Warning DM article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2806391/Judge-rules-22-year-old-woman-severe-learning-disability-history-abusive-relationships-does-mental-capacity-consent-sex.html#comments

Having worked with adults who have learning disabilities and having a child with ASD and developmental delays, the judges decision filled me with horror. This is a woman with an extremely low IQ who professionals have described as having the mental capacity of a young child. This is not right, she has been abused in the past, surely she is a vulnerable adult and needs protecting not exposing to harm.

I am shocked about the responses to this, from the DM readers, yes technically she is an adult, but that means nothing. More importantly, she cannot give informed consent due to her severe needs.

Trip trap what if she doesent understand?

I am not going to read the article but the judge has made what I am sure is a considered opinion.

And adultd who have learning disabilities are just that...ADULTS....not 'child-like'.

In The Undateables, which was on C4 a while back, there was this charity called Stars in the Sky or something like that which involved carers accompanying adults with additional needs on their dates. I thought that was quite nice. Presumably after a few dates, once the carers are satisfied they can come to no harm, they let them go off unaccompanied!

if we took away an adults ability to consent because of learning disabilities however severe we're effectively taking away their ability to reproduce, and doing that, especially through court rulings, starts to lean toward regulating who can and cannot reproduce based on iq and therefore uncomfortably towards eugenics which is probably why it's not a good idea to say this woman cannot consent. Do it once, and other people might try to do it, and we end up with what, an iq threshold below which people cannot have sex and reproduce? Not good.

if she's being abused, then she hasn't consented, the issue isn't that she can't consent but that she didn't and was forced to do something she didn't want to, not that she's unable to consent - prosecute the abusers but don't say she can't consent to sex.

I disagree Minerves, there are some adults who because of the severity of their disability cannot consent to sex. When you are bringing another life into the world, you have to consider no only the woman's rights, but the rights of that child. Is it fair on the woman, for her to give birth and then the baby to be removed because she is not capable due to her disabilities of looking after that child. We are going down a very slippery slope, and where does duty of care come into it? Surely SS have a duty of care towards the most vulnerable adults who are not able to speak out, and cannot give informed consent.

Sexual activity does not have to lead to pregnancy. The two are separate.

I worry about my DD. In the grand scheme of things, she's described as having moderate learning difficulties. She's changed so much since she was dx at 3. Yet, there are some things that, I believe, will never change. For her, one of those is that she loves people and she wants to be best friends with everyone she meets. That is going to be her biggest problem as an adult. She's incredibly vulnerable.

But the thought of her living a life where some choices are off-limits to her seems awful. I'm completely torn.

I also
have a child with ASD and development delays and learning difficulties my child is a boy however I,m not sure what I think I hope he will be able to have a relationship and maybe work in some capacity its difficult I agree ,he is only four though so who knows what will happen in the future.

It is hard as they are still so young, dd is only 7. Who knows, I hope she will do most stuff her nt peers will be able to do, she is quite Hugh functioning.

how strange
on mn nearly all the time, when considering pregnancy for any reason, pretty much every body shouts about the woman having the right to decide.
yet on here the OP is using the fact that the personmight get pregnant, as her reason.
double standards or what.
in this day and age, a woman with LD'S should surely have the same rights as a nt woman.
if they don't ......now that is a slippery slope.

There are plenty of people who are poor parents to the extent they will not be allowed to keep their children - that doesn't mean they can't consent to sex.

Mrs Devere

Excellent, if incredibly sad post.

This has unfortunately been my professional experience too Mrs Devere and I am incredibly worried that we are failing parents with LD - we as in health/social/childcare professionals. I know I'm not the only one of my colleagues (across different disciplines) who is concerned about this, but I don't have any ready answers as to how to address it sadly. Well, a lot more resources targeted in that area would help obviously.

I haven't read all the posts, so apologies if this is repetitive. I think you can recognise that someone is vulnerable to abuse and does not have the cognitive abilities to protect herself from abuse and exploitation. But must that always mean a blanket view that she is unable to consent to any sexual relations? What if she is offered a loving and equal relationship? Is she to be denied the right to sexual relations in that context because if her learning disability? I realise that means someone, possibly a judge, reaching a view about particular relationships she has, but surely this is better than an all or nothing view of capacity that may deny her something good that is not denied to people without LD.

Mrsdv your stories have shocked me being sterilised without consent is barbaric

It really is a mine field and the fact remains that many people in the community prey on vulnerable adults with LD. Plus the current economic climate of cut backs isn't helping to support people with LD as eligibility for support services has been tightened. In my experience specialist LD teams have been removed and social workers from Older Adult teams are picking up LD cases. LD is a specialist area which requires dedicated and experienced professionals. As swingball says we are failing parents with LD and in my opinion adults with LD in general.

Unfortunalty we are not equipped well as a society to deal with people with LD living in the community in a myriad of ways. until we are I think its best to remain as cautious as possible erring on side of safety.