Lady with severe learning disabilities ruled by judge that she can give consent to sex

[Aeroflotgirl]

Warning DM article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2806391/Judge-rules-22-year-old-woman-severe-learning-disability-history-abusive-relationships-does-mental-capacity-consent-sex.html#comments

Having worked with adults who have learning disabilities and having a child with ASD and developmental delays, the judges decision filled me with horror. This is a woman with an extremely low IQ who professionals have described as having the mental capacity of a young child. This is not right, she has been abused in the past, surely she is a vulnerable adult and needs protecting not exposing to harm.

I am shocked about the responses to this, from the DM readers, yes technically she is an adult, but that means nothing. More importantly, she cannot give informed consent due to her severe needs.

And to those saying 'when she gets pg' according to the full judgement she did a couple of years ago and that is when SS first became involved with her.

Erm, the obvious solution would be to arrest and prosecute the men who have abused her, rather than seeking to prevent her from maybe entering a happy sexual relationship with a non-criminal, decent human later if she so wishes? Domestic abuse is a criminal matter regardless of whether the abused partner has learning disabilities. This story does not have to be the way that sexual relationships are for people with LD; I read a while back about a couple with Downs Syndrome who appeared, from the interview, to have a healthier relationship than most people who post on Relationships here!

Raltherraffe, I would hope her family will help her get long-term contraception if she chooses to have a sexual relationship with a man on her own terms.

She isn't a young child though.

I agree with Woodlice

Yes I am sure that if she fell pregnant, SS would remove the child. I just see an extremely vulnerable woman who needs protecting. Having a child with ASD and dev delays, it resonates. Yes I would love dd to have loving safe relationships, and have a job a house, everthing an NT parent wants. I hope that she can.

this i a difficult one ..on one hand she has severe learning disabilities with an IQ of 53.so you would think thats it she cant give consent .but on the other hand she is an adult of 22 ..i believe if she could have a loving supported relationship .then fine she has feelings just like the rest of us .lots of so called normal people have been in abusive relationships .and there are plenty folk out there into three somes .i do feel socialwork/ her parents need to keep a very close eye on the situation .i am saying this as a mother of a high functioning autistic son .

No pumpkin, but her meantal capacity which is the important thing here, is. SW have a duty of care towards her.

I agree, but he needs protecting from those who want to abuse her and harm her.

if she is being prostituted thats a very diffrent thing .that is not on .

I agree she should be cared for, of course. We are on same page there.

I just think she should be treated as an adult with LDs not a young child.

I think this is impossible to decide what is right without knowing all the facts. I would trust the professionals involved including the judge. Without actually knowing the facts who can say if she might enjoy a sexual relationship. I would hope that she has a great support system around her to protect her from any abuse.

LOVING the notion that people on the internet know more abotu this than a judge

The issue is a legal one. The concept of capacity is judged on some key factors by professionals with a knowledge of the case. Capacity is determined on a decision by decision basis and just because someone makes an unwise decision it doesn't mean that they don't have capacity.

And whoever it was who talked about adoption out of the family, let's hope that if she does get pregnant the child is cared for in the safest, most loving place which may not necessarily be the birth family.

Interesting case.

In the grand scheme of things, then of course she should have full rights over her own body and the issue should be with the "boyfriend" who is abusing and prostituting her. In a way, you are actually victim blaming her, and trying to punish her for being abused. She has done nothing wrong.

Whether that would keep her safe in reality..... who knows. But many an intelligent woman have been abused too, without their fundamental rights being called into question.

Yes saucy but they haven't got the difficulties that this wman has. She is not being punished, she should be protected from harm.

The test is though, whether she has the capacity to consent to sex and a relationship - even if it is an abusive one. You see here every single day that so many women without LDs put up with vile abusive men. They have made a choice, even if most people think it's the wrong one.

Taking away her right to have sex is a punishment whether you want to see it as one or not.

She may have the mental capabilities of a child, but she isn't a child. She is a grown woman with the same sexual/relationship needs as the rest of us. Obviously they shouldn't just pack her off with nothing but a pack of condoms, but it isn't ok to lock her up if she meets the criteria for mental capacity either.

This young woman is a prime target for exploitation yes she is a grown up physically and will have sexual desires and I believe in disabled people having free will But there will be men who will and have abused her she needs protecting

Legally we have to assume that someone has capacity unless it's demonstrated that they don't. She may have an LD but this is such a broad spectrum that we cannot write off her capacity to consent unless we have specific evidence that she can't understand, retain and apply information related to the situation under consideration. If she can do those things and still chooses to engage in risky behaviour that is her choice, just like anybody else.

Mrsjayy

If the men in her life are doing something illegal they should be prosecuted, she should not be restricted because of someone else's behaviour. If she is deemed at some point to not have capacity to make the decision to have a sexual relationship and someone enters into one with her it becomes a safeguarding issue.

But these men won't be doing anything illegal to her she is consenting which is fair enough but what if some random bloke starts passing her round his mates one after the other still nothing illegal still consenting but is it right what if they video it put it on the internet she thinks it is a right laugh says go on then, random bloke tags video saying X will do anything X consents to meeting men for more sex she is vulnerable she needs to be protected.

I think that someone with an IQ of 53 does have the mental capacity to consent and enjoy sex, but they do not have the mental capacity to under stand prositution. It would be wrong to bar her from having a sexual relationship in the future, but it would not be wrong to stop her seeing her so called "boyfriend".

I see the situation similar to the young teens who were sexually abused in Rochdale.

You're right and most HCP find it very frustrating to not be able to do more but if she can demonstrate that she understands the risks etc and still chooses to do it, legally no one can do a thing.
Many people engage in behaviours which we perceive as dangerous, unwise or wrong but because they don't have a label we don't interfere (beyond tutting and tittle tattling) from a legal perspective this woman's LD is neither here nor there if she can understand, process, retain and apply the information regarding the risks and consequences. Allowing people the freedom to make their own decisions might be uncomfortable but this legal change has opened up a whole range of opportunities and possibilities for people who previously were shut away under the auspices of being protected. Sadly it's also bought with it some challenges.

It says that the judge felt she met the legal tests for capacity and this was the professional consensus. So not sure what other conclusion could have been reached?

Capacity is not a black and white issue and people can have capacity for some decisions but not for others. I could not possibly make a personal judgement regarding this without knowing all the facts of an individual case.

Even the judge said that he had misgivings about it, I think the situation is being monitored as it should, she should not be put out to the lions for all to do what they wish with her. At the end of the day her IQ is 53 and extremly low, one questions how much she understands and whether she has an informed decision.