Lady with severe learning disabilities ruled by judge that she can give consent to sex

[Aeroflotgirl]

Warning DM article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2806391/Judge-rules-22-year-old-woman-severe-learning-disability-history-abusive-relationships-does-mental-capacity-consent-sex.html#comments

Having worked with adults who have learning disabilities and having a child with ASD and developmental delays, the judges decision filled me with horror. This is a woman with an extremely low IQ who professionals have described as having the mental capacity of a young child. This is not right, she has been abused in the past, surely she is a vulnerable adult and needs protecting not exposing to harm.

I am shocked about the responses to this, from the DM readers, yes technically she is an adult, but that means nothing. More importantly, she cannot give informed consent due to her severe needs.

It would be better if it was a Times article because many people hate the way the DM report (except the Times isn't free online so linking to it is troublesome).

Raltheraffe Courts and SS will always place a child within their family if possible.

I have included an article from the Business Times about it which basically says the same thing.

Mrsjayy- it would be perfectly reasonable and possible to provide her with a level of supervision that would prevent her from being exploited in the scenario you describe without taking her fundamental rights away. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

mrsstarlord I agree with you (I think) I just think if this case has gone to court then the woman has had poor judgement and it has concerned her carers and ss,

My friend has a dd 20 with severe ASD and learning difficulties and epilepsy. Her psychiatrist has told my friend her dd has the mental capacity of a young child. Dd will say yes to everything, even though it is not right. Like if asked if she had Rice Krispies for breakfast she will say yes, even though she had toast. She has the potential to be open to physical, sexual and financial abuse.

I agree saucy, not just left to fend by herself kind of thing, but make sure she is not abused and exploited.

Aeroflotgirl - the assessment of capacity will have looked at this in far more detail than just her IQ. Anyone who has contact with people with LD will know that the number is purely a broad assessment often used to determine access to specific services (which is not always reliable anyway) but that intellect doesn't equate with logic or functional or social ability etc. the number is a red herring. The assessment has clearly been more detailed than just the IQ, it's an uncomfortable truth that sometimes people do things that we want to protect them from (whatever labels are or aren't attached to them) but we can't control other peoples behaviour without very good reason.

Who should supervise her sexual behaviour though her father her carers social worker if simebody with sever learning difficulties needs sexual behaviour monitored and supercised then surely she isn't capable. The judged has ruled she is capable of consent so she can carry on being abused exploited legally I think that is a shame

Excuse all my typos

I think someone who reads a Daily Mail article and treats it as fact should be treated as a vulnerable adult and not allowed to give informed consent to anything.

What about the posters on here who continue in difficult relationships in spite of lots of advice to LTB? Or people who work as prostitutes? Or people who go to fetish clubs or engage in swinging? We (mostly) assume that they have the mental capacity to do this in spite of any risk they may be putting themselves in (or not depending on your perspective), SS & the police will be aware if there are any concerns and will keep an eye out but restricting her ability to do what she wants if she has capacity would be a deprivation of her liberty and against the law. It's a tricky one and I understand the anxiety but I really think that we need to not assume that someone with an LD is any less able to make this decision than anyone else just because of the label which has been attached to them.

Tbf I didn't say all adults with Ld I was just talking about this woman with Ld I have a learning disability y connected to my physical disability I wouldn't want my liberty take n away
I just think the people involved with this women were so concerned for her safety that it went to court the judge made the decision which her carers have to abide by and help her make safe choices. Fwiw I don't buy into the mental age of people either a learning disability is much more complex than she has the mental age of 5,

It fills me with horror too,

If you know anyone in the care system, whether thats young or old or living in the community you will know how vulnerable people with LD are.

Abuse is already rife and probably, severely un diagnosed. This sort of thing opens up flood gates.

Leaves people vulnerable.

I've worked with community learning disability teams in the past & a lot of our time was spent on sex education, relationship counselling etc for our clients.
Women & men with LD being abused in the community is very common, we couldn't tell clients who not to be friends with, was very very difficult in a lot of cases.

Women & men with LD being abused in the community is very common,

It is, and its shocking and because the victims cant speak out its a hell ish nightmare.

It is fanny there is a fine line, between their freedom as an adult, but also duty if care. Yes I know people without learning disabilities put themselves in danger and open themselves to abuse, thus woman is at more risk of abuse and does ones some monitoring.

surely it is best to stamp out abuse, rather than saying someone with LD'S needs to be protected from abuse
seems like victim blaming to me

But often they don't recognise what abuse is, the people abusing them are their friend, it's just what friends do.
It's so so difficult, I've had families of young women with LD begging me to help get them sterilised for example, I can see where they are coming from but no one can have a forced sterilisation.

Can't always prove that the "friends" are being abusive.

I think the Judge done what he had to do, everyone stated she was capable of giving consent and he had to go with that. To not do so would be going against all the professional advice given to the court.

He has noted his reservations and that is fair.

What needs to be done for this woman, to help protect her (because, whether we like it or not abuse will never be stamped out, it will always exist in the world, although we can do our damndest to minimise it) is to educate her as best as possible to help her understand that she doesn't have to do anything if she doesn't want to, to understand what is and isn't normal behaviour, to understand what SHE herself wants/finds acceptable and why, what help is available to her, who she can contact if she is scared and needs help and how to protect herself against pregnancy and STIs. She should get that help.

I know Fanny, before dc, I worked in that area myself and can see how extremely vulnerable some can be, and that they do not always understand what they are consenting to and the implications of it. Just because they are technically adults, does not mean they are not vulnerable and do not need some sort of protection, as some certainly do not. Some of the adults I used to work with, would say yes to everything, without understanding the implications or the impact it has on themselves.

Mrsdv you are right