To be totally baffled (Ched Evans related)

[soapboxqueen]

Just reading in the guardian that Ched Evans has applied to the Criminal Cases Review Commission to review his case. That's fine because it is part of our due process and legal system.

However, in the article it points out that his girlfriend's father is paying for appeal barristers, private detectives and even offering a reward for information in order to help his appeal. Why would you do that? Why would you put up so much money to protect a person who at best (from their perspective at least) cheated on your daughter in a rather deplorable fashion and at worst a rapist? Why would got want your daughter to be with such a person?

I really don't understand.

I'll see if I can get the link to work.

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Room booked on Evans' credit card, in McDonald's name in order for him to use it. The person who actually stayed in the room all night was the victim. I find it strange that the room was booked but both men ended up going back to Evans' house anyway.

I think the prosecution's argument of the room being booked purely for procuring a girl was probably right.

Indeed, although at a football match the vast majority are men. True..

That is not what they said in court

Yes it is. They said in court that one of them asked if Evans could join in and she said "yeah". They disagreed, however, as to which one of them asked the question - each said the other had asked. This does not prove that the question was not asked, of course. They also said that the victim specifically asked Evans to give her oral sex.

I was totally confused about this last week when it all started. Horrified by the story but also wondering what possible defence the family and friends could be mounting on his behalf.

I went to his own website and read the part which is called something like "Indisputable Facts" and couldn't believe my eyes! The way they behaved was absolutely repulsive and this is his OWN testimony! Completely regardless of what the victim said or did those men booked a hotel room, went out and picked up a blind drunk woman, one of them took her back to the room and then texted the other to say he'd "got a bird" (that part is sanitised on his website to "I'm with a girl"...completely different). Then C.E. arrives and asks if he can have a go. Meanwhile his brother and a friend are attempting to video the whole event from outside. Then they leave her on her own after acknowledging to the doorman that she is not feeling well. That is their OWN evidence!!!

It is frankly unbelievable that he has any support at all. He is NOT the victim here and seeing him treated like one and like a hero in his home town makes me sick.

How any woman can be with someone who treats other women like this and sees no wrong in it is totally beyond me. I have no sympathy for him at all.

Yup, Cromer. I wish ched's brother and his mate had been prosecuted for being peeping toms, no one has ever claimed they had the victim's consent.

I know cromer its unbelievable isnt it.

If I were Ched and Ryan Evan's mother I would be mortified and wondering where the fuck I had failed so badly as a parent that my sons would behave in this way. But it seems she is too busy on twitter slating the 'man hater' who started the Sheffiekd United petition, for any sort of inward reflection.

I think it is worth sayin that pr is right and that the men did say that they thought she had consented because of the 'yeah' answer to the question of whether Ched could join in. However there are several reasons that I can think of as to why that wouldn't necessarily mean she had actually consented.

On the website there is a video statement from Natasha and she says 'despite the events leading up to what happened my love for Ched is as strong as ever'. Really?! REALLY?!

On his sister's twitter she has a rather vitriolic message about how she hates every single one of the 'evil and pathetic' members of the jury and questions why they would single out Ched as guilty. She has a rather flattered view of her B list footballer brother - is it because he is a footballer they found him guilty (er no, no one cares about your brothers footballer status) We're they paid off or bullied into their verdict? (What all 12 of them and none of them had the decency to come forward and tell the police hat there was big time corruption going on in the trial they were jury on?!)

No sweetheart, the reason that they found him guilty is because despite the fact that it is very difficult to get a verdict of 'guilty beyond reasonable doubt' for a rape case because of society's views on women and also the baies of the crime itself, 12 people heard he evidence and decided that your brother is a rapist.

Not that difficult to grasp is it?

I wonder if Ched and Clayton Macdonald are still friends? I haven't heard anything about him publicly defending him, although I guess he may not be allowed to say anything in public (or just wants to distance himself from the whole thing now?)

questions why they would single out Ched as guilty

For what it is worth there is some reason to believe the judge was surprised by the verdicts. His remarks during sentencing suggest he expected that either both would be found guilty or both acquitted.

However there are several reasons that I can think of as to why that wouldn't necessarily mean she had actually consented.

I agree. Of course, in a rape case the state of mind of the accused also matters. For it to be rape the victim must not consent (or be incapable of giving consent) and the accused must either know that the victim does not consent or be reckless as to consent (i.e. doesn't care whether or not she consents). If the accused reasonably believes that the victim consents he is not guilty of rape. Note that I am not saying that the "yeah" was enough for Evans to reasonably believe the victim consented in this case.

We don't know the jury's reasoning, of course. They clearly concluded that the victim consented to sex with McDonald and was capable of doing so (or, at the very least, that McDonald reasonably believed she had consented to sex with him). We don't know whether they think the victim did not consent to sex with Evans or that she was too drunk to consent. Juries have been reluctant to convict in cases where a very drunk woman has consented to sex. That fact plus the acquittal of McDonald means I suspect the jury decided there was no consent but we don't know.

'Evil and pathetic'

She's kidding herself into blaming others, because there is no way she will admit that her little brother is a disrespecting, woman-hating rapist.

There is no way this man should be allowed back onto his footballing pedastal. The thought of him being idolised and admired by countless young boys and men makes me shudder.

freckle that is an interesting questiion

I think when she said 'singling out Ched' as guilty, she meant in all rape cases not just Clayton Macdonald.

I wonder if Ched and Clayton Macdonald are still friends

After the verdict a statement on McDonald's behalf described Evans as a lifelong friend and said he would continue to support him in any way possible. I have no idea whether they actually remain friends or what support, if any, McDonald has given. He now plays for Southport in the Conference - the fifth tier of English football - so anything he does is unlikely to attract much attention from the press.

the decision can only have been based on her drunkenness

Possibly but I think that makes it harder to understand why McDonald was acquitted. I'm happy to be corrected but I'm not aware of any evidence put before the jury that would indicate she was more drunk when Evans had sex with her than she was when having sex with McDonald.

they only clearly believed that there was reasonable doubt

I'm aware of that. I was trying to keep it reasonably simple. If I started adding "reasonable doubt" everywhere I would end up with a totally incomprehensible post.

I wonder if Ched and Clayton Macdonald are still friends? I haven't heard anything about him publicly defending him, although I guess he may not be allowed to say anything in public

Nope he doesn't think either of them did anything wrong

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/clayton-mcdonald-midland-footballer-speaks-6788373

Grrrr, that article about CM made me so angry. Fuuuuuuuuck! Just because someone isn't found guilty doesn't mean they didn't do it. It just means they the prosecution didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. And there is CM doing the whole "poor me" schpeeel even though he behaved despicably. Zero insight and zero fucking humility.

Not to mention that what he said in the article contradicts (or at least glosses over) the evidence presented at trial (and that he conceded).

Yes, it's a umm, somewhat sanitised version of events he has put across there isn't it!

It's all the talk of false accusations that gets me. This woman didn't even accuse them did she? She had no idea what had happened to her!

That, Clayton McDonald, is the point. It is not acceptable to take a woman to a hotel for sex when she can barely stand up. What you should do is ensure she gets safely in a taxi home.

Quit the whining.

And and! stop bleating on about how she wanted to have sex with you both. If she says she doesn't remember any of it then she doesn't remember any of it. How fucking dare you tell the world what she wanted when she doesn't even get to have a voice!

You thought it was consensual. You didn't realise she was too drunk to give consent. That you can say if you must. Not that she wanted it. Don't present your interpretation of the evening as fact.