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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to this is not ok (racism related)?

352 replies

Warriorqueen69 · 16/10/2014 21:43

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

OP posts:
almondcakes · 18/10/2014 13:49

Cadmium, I don't know or care whether you are or are not a racist. That's your issue.

I'm not happy about my own behaviour on this thread, because I've been drawn into a massive derailment at the expense of the OP, whose family is experiencing racism (or bullying if that makes you more comfortable).

I think your derailing by constantly making out it isn't racism, and then to claim you are enjoying the discussion, when it is something the OP's family are going through is at least as bad as me responding to you.

So sorry OP, and I hope you do go back to the school and they deal with the behaviour of the kids.

I need to stop coming on MN. I'm not adding anything positive.

almondcakes · 18/10/2014 13:57

Caucasian in the UK refers to people who live on a part of the European Asian border, many of whom are experiencing Ethnic Cleansing. Asian and African refer to continents of origin or residence. They have nothing to do with the word caucasian at all.

18th century racism had mongoloid, Ethiopian, American Indian, Malayan and cauacasian, if that's where you are getting the word from. Or maybe you just watch US tv. But the UK papers use Caucasian to mean people who live in that region.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 18/10/2014 17:22

The very first post said: this is bad, this is bullying, this needs to be sorted ... But this isn't racism.

I agree with that. And don't see how it is helpful to the family in question to confuse teasing about being American with racism. My daughter has been teased for having curly hair, being skinny, her surname. All horrible, none racism.

SleepyGene · 18/10/2014 17:39

And don't see how it is helpful to the family in question to confuse teasing about being American with racism

we are back to it was just teasing.

you people are apologists for racists. you people are a big part of why this still happens. your "just teasing" opinions are highly offensive

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 17:40

Oh lord are we hear again? Legally it is racism.
What else does anyone need to say?

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 17:40

Here not hear. Too cross to proof read.

DunedinSunshine · 18/10/2014 17:45

"I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"

regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb."

They are using the words stupid and dumb and hate. That is not teasing. That is bullying.

Bulbasaur · 18/10/2014 17:46

Until Americans are being systematically oppressed by a larger system, it is not racism. It's as disingenuous as saying black kids teasing white kids because they're white is racist. It's discrimination or even xenophobia, but not racism.

Either way it's wrong. But let's not start incorrectly using loaded words for the sake of justifying outrage. It's fine to be outraged that your child is picked on regardless of the reason. It doesn't need to be racism for it to be wrong and to demand the school take it seriously.

MyFirstName · 18/10/2014 17:47

Black man says to a another black man - fuck off, I hate all Jamaicans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

White man says to another white man - fuck off, I hate all Americans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

Black man says to a white man - fuck off, I hate all Eastern Europeans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

White man says to a black man - fuck off, I hate all Nigerians. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

Racism 123. Easy. Simple. Abhorent whatever fucking colour is involved. It is about attacking someones origins (race, nationality, ethnic or national origins). Really, really what can people not get about this.

It is not just racist if the victim is black.

NancyJones · 18/10/2014 17:53

Bulbasaur, I totally fundamentally disagree with your post. I don't think either morally or legally racism only applied to those who have been historically and/or systematically persecuted or oppressed. In fact I actually remember MLK Jnr saying that very thing. I will try and find a link to the speech where he says it.

Bulbasaur · 18/10/2014 17:55

Black man says to a another black man - fuck off, I hate all Jamaicans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

White man says to another white man - fuck off, I hate all Americans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

Nope. There is no imbalance of power between them, there is no inherent advantages or disadvantages between them. They are xenophobic.

Educate yourself

Black man says to a white man - fuck off, I hate all Eastern Europeans. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

Nope. White man has racial advantage given to him by society. Black man is xenophobic.

White man says to a black man - fuck off, I hate all Nigerians. You are stupid and dumb. Go back to where you came from. Racist.

Yes. This is racism. The white man has an advantage given to him by society and is beating down on a black man who already has a disadvantage given to him by society.

These examples are all absolutely wrong. But your understanding of racism is incorrect.

DunedinSunshine · 18/10/2014 18:02

I understand the class-with-power analysis, and for the most part, I agree with it. But this is different. The fact that this child is half-American does not, in and of itself, make her a member of an oppressor class (and any way, I don't think that the US as a nation has oppressed the UK as a nation).

She is a minority in this situation and she is not the one with power. The children taunting her have power because they are enabled by the people who actually have power in this situation--the teachers. And these more powerful people are using her ethnicity to hurt her and to separate her, to make her "other."

The foundational principle in most anti-bullying and anti-violence programs for children is respect for differences, because differences are what bullies usually target first. Bullying, like domestic violence, is about power. The fact that this child's father is a citizen of a powerful nation does not translate to this child having power in this situation. She is the victim of abuse of power here.

MyFirstName · 18/10/2014 18:05

Thanks . I know about Xenophobia..a fear or dislike of people from different countries.

Just FYI Synonyms of xenophobia in English:
racism, racialism, racial hatred, ethnocentrism, ethnocentricity;
nationalism, jingoism, isolationism;
prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, bias
in South Africa , historical apartheid

From the article you kindly linked to:
^is often difficult to differentiate between racism and xenophobia as motivations for behaviour.
Accordingly, it is possible to talk about a 'new racism' that developed in the post-war era since racism no longer was based on biological but rather on cultural differences.^

If you would also like to educate yourself please see my links further up the thread. Which outline the definitions in law of what racial discrimination and hatred are. Or the links others have provided of the same.

almondcakes · 18/10/2014 18:09

Bulbasaur, this is not social justice hazing of white people on tumblr.
It is a school. They have to follow the law. The law protects everyone equally. They don't only record and deal with racism against the most disadvantaged groups.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 18/10/2014 18:27

I said it was bullying. Which is bad.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 18/10/2014 18:35

Thank god for bulbasaur.

Being American is not a race. End.

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 18:39

Bulbasaur that just isn't legacy accurate. Glad you're so sure of yourself though!
For example, women suffer more sexism than men, by a large
amount IMO. However a man (or boy, in a school scenario) has protection under the equality act if they are treated unfavourably due to their sex. The protected characteristic is "neutral" so to speak, we have protection due to race (rather than saying BME people have protection) and protection based on our sex (rather than saying women have protection). They are protected characteristics not protected groups

SleepyGene · 18/10/2014 18:39

These examples are all absolutely wrong. But your understanding of racism is incorrect.

and your understanding of racism is based on what? your nextdoor neighbour's brother's auntie's take on it?

try basing it on the actual law. it IS racism

you can call a rapist a pervert, and I can stop you.
you can call a racist, a bully, or a tease, and I can't stop you

the law decides what constitutes rape, and what constitutes racism, not you

your understanding of racism is based on faulty logic, not the law.

NancyJones · 18/10/2014 18:40

But Bulbasaur is just arguing that it's not racism because Americans are not a race, she's arguing that it's not racism because white Americans are not a historically persecuted group of people.

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 18:40

Workplace equality training is clearly lacking Hmm

NancyJones · 18/10/2014 18:42

Which I completely disagree with and thankfully, so does the law.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 18/10/2014 18:45

Yes, I agree with her on that count too.

almondcakes · 18/10/2014 18:46

Nancy, but so what? That's her personal morality.

I can say shoplifting isn't theft because I hate Tesco. My morality is not the law.

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 18:47

Are some of you employers? Are you ready to face your first discrimination tribunal, because with your views you could certainly end up in one!

Iggi999 · 18/10/2014 18:51

I don't think it's being quoted as personal morality, as opposed to how things operate in the UK
It doesn't need to be racism for it to be wrong and to demand the school take it seriously.