AIBU to ask to collect my dd when she wets herself

[Itsjustmeagain]

dd (4) has had trouble settling into reception, I have posted many times about it (so sorry for another one!) but she wets herself multiple times daily especially when she is anxious (which she is more often at school than home)

It has got to the point now where she is coming home very sore because obviously the school just don't have the facilities to deal with it to this extent.

We have a referral to the hospital from our gp but we have been told that it will take some time to come through and at the moment since its pretty much under control at home and both dh and I and the school have tried everything all we can do is wait.

I want to ask the teacher that if (when) she wets herself the school call me and I collect her to bring her home and wash her and change her properly I feel like it is not fair to keep her in school when she is sore and smelly (even with changing she still needs a wash).

AIBU to ask this I really cant decide if I am.

She only turned 4 in August so I cant decide if I am just being precious. She is my 4th child and the only one to have had problems like this.

Do please take a look at the Eric website I posted earlier, before you go into school. They have a campaign about accessing toileta at school as well as information sheets. There might be some ammunition to help you make your case with the teachers.

Hello,

You either need to

1. take her out of school until after the medical assessment (either by deferring Reception until next Year, or deferring this year until Easter).

2. speak to SENCO at school, and get a care plan sorted, which is either she's in pull ups, or TA escorts her to toilet every 30 minutes as you do at home

3. look for another school! I think your daughter obviously has medical issues, and the teacher needs to be kind with her. Telling her to 'try harder' is shocking. A Reception teacher should be able to control a class, but also be kind and nurturing.

At our school the kids in reception have a subtle hand signal they give if they want to go to the loo, hand against heart wiggling index finger, the teacher sees it and sends them gently off to the loo. Our reception has toilets attached to reception specifically for reception kids. One boy was constantly having to go to the loo and in reception they just let him leave to go without having to put his hand up etc. In yr 1 he went to the doctors once his bladder was stronger and they came up with a plan of drinking less water, and learning to control it for longer and longer periods till he could hold it in till break time but till then he could still run out when required with out asking first. Hope this helps

My dd went through this. We saw a specialist and the solution was to drink more and regularly to stretch her bladder. Obviously , ideally done during school holidays and weekends. Instinctively, you try and limit drinks but longterm that is of no benefit. It took her until about age 8 to stop having accidents. She was so embarrassed at school and was a very anxious child. I really regret starting her so early at school.

I would be in favour of taking your child out for the year until you get on top of the weeing. Otherwise you are just damaging her self-esteem. The other kids whisper and grimace when one of their classmates wets themselves.

I can't believe that it's possible that the school are taking her regularly to the toilet if she is wetting fully 4 times a day - how much liquid can one barely 4 year old consume?!? I suspect that they aren't reminding/taking her at all.

It does sound like a medical issue & even if it isn't then it's got to the point where you need professional help. Like you say sticker charts just won't cut it if the bladder control just isn't there! I don't know much about it but I've seen the ERIC website recommended if you haven't come across it yet.

The school cannot say no to pull ups and they have to change her and clean her as necessary. She needs a care plan. My son was in nappies for 3 years in mainstream.

My daughter is in Y3 and has been under enuresis clinic since she YR. Please talk to senco and school nurse (offsite, get the number from school reception). Pulling her out of school or waiting months for a clinic appt is ridiculous. It's a medical problem and while you are waiting for clinic, the experts in practical management of this are school nurses and sencos. There is a substantial risk that it won't magically resolve itself by Easter, and even if it does, why should she miss school because her condition is not being managed? Get the right people on board to support her.

Eric will be able to point you towards the new legislation which says something like every child who needs one must have a personal care plan to enable their needs to be met in school. Get a copy and show it to the school. After years of dealing with this I really feel school teachers and GPs are not best placed to advise on practical management.

Others have covered the bladder/weeing issue far better than me, so I won't say any more on that.

Just posting to say that my dd (summer born) started Reception part-time last year and did mostly mornings until Christmas. It was not disruptive as we picked up after she had eaten lunch with her friends. She was there for the morning learning session and to be honest they are so tired in the afternoon that they don't do much literacy or maths anyway. It has made absolutely no difference to her progress, she is above average in all areas. The school can offer part time easily it is up to the Head.

"she is only dry at home because I physically take her to the toilet every 30 minutes"

Could she have a timer which goes off every 30 minutes, maybe a vibrating one so the rest of the class don't have to know?

I have to agree, she is simply not toilet trained if she's only dry because you spend half the day putting her on the toilet. Does her doctor realise she's still untrained to this extent? I'm also startled that the nursery never pointed out to you that this was going to be a bit of a disaster at school.

Would the school consider holding her back a year so she could sart reception next September. I know it's not the done things but if her birthday is on the cusp you may have a good argument with lea

As erin99 says you need to get in touch with school nurse for your area for further support. It sounds very much like your daughter is not yet toilet trained but it may well be a medical issue. Schools have an obligation to meet and facilitate children's needs and cannot discriminate or bar children who have toileting needs. Sadly many schools try to flip this problem back to the parents which is totally unacceptable.
I would consider pull-ups/nappies which school can also cater for whilst the problem is being explored. I have seen good results from putting children back into them for a short while and then reassessing readiness for toilet training.

Thanks for all your replies. I spoke to the teacher to arrange a meeting yesterday and she agreed to arrange one for Friday but she seemed not to really want to as she says there is no point until we hear from the hospital - but really that could be s while away yet we haven't even had an appointment letter yet!
I spent most of the evening yesterdY hugging dd , I just feel so bad for her because I really don't think she can control this.

She was very sore last night and if she is still that sore this morning I am keeping her home today as it doesn't seen fair to cause her pain over this.

I brought up the topic of nappies with the teacher - just until we have the appointment and get a plan sorted but she looked horrified.

The teacher is being an arse (and I say that as an Early Years Teacher!).

Plese make sure that you involve the Headteacher and the SENCO in the meeting too. Don't leave it up to the classteacher to ask them, either e-mail or phone the school and let them know about the meeting and ask that they be there too.

My DD is an August baby and it feels like she has never really "got it" about going to the toilet. She is in Y1 now and school have always been great about changing her when she needs it.

I'm just now thinking about going to the doctors with her as we'd been told in the past that until she was 5 they wouldn't treat her. After reading the links from PP I'm going to go to the doctor this week as I'm sure she has an overactive bladder.

To everyone replying here as it has helped me a lot and for OP, I hope you and your little DD get this sorted and it doesn't dint her confidence too much.

Find links to back up things you're going to bring up at the meeting. If she is legally entitled to wear pull ups/nappies, find an official source to this online and print it off, multiple copies. If she is legally allowed to go part time until easter, again seek back up and print out copies. Don't ASK for these things, insist on your daughter's entitlement to them.

Do not let this teacher tell you that nappies are not a possibility. I think it's good that you have arranged to have a meeting with her, but she does not sound very open to exploring how the school can meet your dds needs. This so doesn't have to wait till you have been seen by a hospital or doctor.

A few years ago I worked in a school outside of the statutory provision side of the school, we had a few children for various reasons who were not dry.
The school tried to change its policies to suggest that parents had to come to the school to change soiled/wet children. A quiet word with the local lea and the school very quickly changed this policy having had pointed out to them that this was discriminatory and they could face legal action.

I hope your meeting goes well.

Honestly don't know why the school are so horrified at the possibility of pull ups/nappies. I'm school support staff, so it often falls to me to change a wet or soiled child. It's actually far easier when it's just a case of whipping off a wet pull up and replacing it, than when it involves stripping lots of wet clothes, mopping floors, etc! We're lucky in that we have a large changing table (installed by the lea for a physically disabled child) but that wasn't the first child in nappies in mainstream school, nor will it be the last. Besides, a NT child in pull ups, it should be perfectly possible to change them standing up.

You should phone your gp and the consultants office regularly to see if they can get you an appointment quickly because they do get cancellations so might see you sooner.

You could try getting her a fitbit. It has the function of silent alarms which you can set on your mobile phone, and it will vibrate silently on her wrist to remind her to go at certain times. We've got a couple of kids at our school with them for that reason.

Although taking her every 30 minutes is not really helping her (and is possibly causing her some of the anxiety around going?). Her bladder needs to get full so she understands the feeling of needing to go, not just going every half hour just in case.

I really sympathise. My DD has been very similar but thank goodness has an autumn birthday so went in at almost five when she was a little more reliable. Had her birthday been a few months earlier I suspect we'd have been where you are. Id trained another child without hassles at 2.5 so I knew it wasn't me :)

I'm not saying taking her out is the wrong answer, but I don't think school should leave you feeling there is no other choice. Supposing you weren't able to take her out?

Can I ask has she been checked for constipation and /or tried on movicol? DDS wetting vastly improved when we had control of her chronic constipation - real control. Kids can be constipated and not look it.

Hope you have a fruitful meeting on Fri.

I second contacting the school to make sure the senco is at the meeting. It is pointless just seeing the teacher.

Put her in pull ups! Them ask the TA to change it midday and pop it in a carrier bag to take home. I can't believe this hasn't been considered Alternatively you go in and change her..

Your child has a medical issue and needs appropriate support. What on earth is the teacher thinking??Also why haven't you been given a referral to Senco? Ask to speak to the Special Educational Needs (Senco) so they can issue a care plan, which will be to change your daughters pull up midday.

Poor you and your poor little girl. A pull up and loads of soothing bum cream along with a doctors appt should solve the immediate problem.

I would most definitely take her out. My ds had huge problems with continence and I sent him part time for the first term, then withdrew him to Home Educate. He started school at the age of 7, which is how long it took to get the issue under control. TBH, I would have been happy to continue Home Ed but dh wanted him to go to school and he wanted to try it.

Get some advice from the charity ERIC - they have printable guidelines for schools, and go to your meeting armed with these. It is not acceptable for a school to say they don't have facilities to change and will not deal with personal hygiene - it is a physical need they have to accommodate. There is no safeguarding issue with changing children, special schools do it all the time, but schools will often use that excuse to refuse to change a child.

In your position, I would take her out of school while the problem is addressed - it's great that you have been referred but bear in mind that she is very young for a continence referral and they may not "do" anything yet - your first appointment is likely to be with the continence nurse. It will be good to see what (s)he advises and you might have a better idea of a plan to tackle the issue after that. Has your dd also been referred to the Paediatricians to rule out underlying phjysical causes? That should be done first before assuming a psychological issue. It is brilliant that she has been referred but it's unlikely there will be a quick fix, continence issues tend to take a long time to address and TBH for us it was impossible with ds in school where the plan would not be followed - he just wasn't mature enough to manage it himself either. Personally, I'd rather they started school later than had a traumatic experience of school. Have a look at the Home Ed boards if you're worried about educating her at home - at this age a lot of it is what you'd be doing anyway, it's just a continuation of what you have been doing so far. DS went into school at the v ery end of Year 1, just before his 7th birthday and had n o issues settling into the school environment - in fact, he did so much better socially for being older and more mature and he had no difficulty joining established friendship groups.

PS. The school should have a personal care policy that you can ask to see - when I asked the school for this, it suddenly and miraculously became possible for them to change DS.