Neighbours tantruming child, would it be unreasonable to talk to them?

[sketchbomb]

Our next door neighbours have a toddler, and he's seriously cute to look at but he's been having daily (often several times a day) tantrums when they put him to bed. I know kids go through difficult periods and I know from experience with relatives/friends kids that they can be noisy. But this has been happening every day now for four months. In the evenings when they put him to bed he can sometimes manage to scream and yell for up to two hours, and even when he finally exhausts himself and sleeps he'll wake up around 2/3 am and have another little session.

My bedroom is on the other side of the wall from his, and he's honestly so loud that even through earplugs he's often woke me up in the middle of the night with the noise. As I type he's been screaming "daddy, mummy" for 30 mins non stop.

I live with some friends and we're all young professionals but we never have noisy late parties or blast music at people because we all enjoy a quieter lifestyle. I don't want to be the unsympathetic neighbour, but the noise he makes is starting to really get to us all, and its been incessant for months now. I'd like to think they're doing all they can but I really don't believe they are. Leaving him to scream for hours on end clearly isnt working.

Would I be unreasonable to go speak to them about it? How would I even broach the subject? The only contact they ever made with us was to ask if we'd keep an eye on the house for the week it was empty before they moved in, and since then nothing. I dont want them to get defensive, but it is unfair that we're all suffering his tantrums as well.

It's fine to approach them but please remember they may well be sitting with him doing all they can when he cries

My son as many others here have also experienced can cry out mummy daddy for hours he does it night after night during a bad phase even if we go in and yes sometimes we have tried ignoring him bit he is just a crap sleeper ... He will wail at bedtime every night .... But believe me we are not doing any sleep training just sitting and cuddling/ reading stories / singing

I think you could say kindly that it Must be hard / say I hope your son is ok toddlers are a real handful etc show your sympathy - and then explain how noisy it is in your house they probably don't realise

I do sympathise with you but it's not fair to compare it to you having a party - children crying is normal everyday sounds and is not generally controllable especially at night

Assume the best - they have no idea it's bothering you , they are as desperate for peace and quiet as you are and try to think what practical solutions might help

I think YWBU yes. What will it achieve?

Again, for the benefit of those posters who think that the parents are merrily sitting in their own room ignoring the child, or those posters who did bed-sharing or whatever and think the parents are to squarely blame: we tried EVERYTHING to get our DD to sleep. We co-slept and she'd lie in our bed screaming and punching and kicking. Or she would be in her bed and us on the floor, and she'd still be screaming, punching and kicking. Nothing worked.

I know it's hard to believe if your kids weren't like this (our DS wasn't and I wouldn't have believed it until I had DD) but, sometimes, they just are.

This doesn't help the OP, but sometimes knowing that the other person - in this case the neighbour - isn't some feckless person who doesn't care about anyone else can in fact help. Or at least help the OP to understand. I personally think the neighbours should have been round to apologise but they may be at the ends of the tether and not thinking straight.

Sorry you are going through this, OP. It's horrible.

We are hopefully coming to the end of a 3 year nightmare with dd1. She was a great sleeper until she developed severe eczema at two, when I was already pregnant with dd2. She took hours to settle at bedtime while dh and I took turns to be with her, the constant scratching and subsequent screaming all through the night also woke her brother. Dh or I would be lying with her trying to stop her harming herself while she shouted things like get off me, you're hurting me, or calling for mama or daddy, whoever wasn't in the room. This all got worse with the arrival of dd2 who although an easy baby woke 3-4 hourly for feeds.

We were exhausted, we both had to work, parent 3 little ones, dd1 was foul tempered in the day time from lack of sleep and eczema, I put on 4 stone, we would have divorced if either of us had had the energy. I wanted to run away but ended up on medication for depression and anxiety.

We tried all we could, told the doctors at every visit and the hv. They sympathised but there was no help, we were advised against cry it out as her eczema was so bad. It was only when she had to stay overnight in hospital in a bay with me with her that the staff actually saw how bad it was. She is now on long term non sedative anti histamines and has started school, her eczema has improved and she is sleeping quietly through the night as long as I stay next to her, screams if she stirs and I'm not there. Still not a great situation as dh and I hardly see each other but we are no longer sleep deprived.

We are in a semi and have explained and apologised to our neighbours and they have been sympathetic and lovely and probably very relieved our other 2 are good sleepers. We were always worried they would think she was being neglected or abused,I honestly don't know what I would have said or done if they had complained.

Sorry for massive post, these sleep issues have dominated our lives for the last 3 years and I just pray we are through the worst of it so we can rebuild our shattered relationship.

Yes, I think you should mention it.

It's been going on a long time and it is ruining your quality of life. It's not your child and it's unreasonable of them to expect you to be sleep deprived night after night if there is something they could be doing to prevent it.

I have no idea how effective this is, but have seen it recommended elsewhere, worth a look perhaps after some research.

www.gowallpaper.co.uk/soundproof-wallpaper.html

Is there anything they can do to prevent it though? I'm sure if there was a solution they would have found it or be trying their best to find it. I think you can be fairly sure the parents are at their wits end already. I think as a neighbour in your situation I would just catch them in passing and ask in a concerned manner why the child is unsettled and try to ascertain whether they are responding to him.

Just a few notes, everyone is talking about night terrors but the boy is awake during these tantrums, we see him standing at the window in his crib. These arent night terrors. Also the parents arent fretting by his side during, they're in the living room watching TV. I saw them there last night when I was putting the rubbish out.

The thing is, that pretty much everyone on here saying that they had non resolvable sleep issues has spoken to the neighbours, sketch's have not spoken to her. Child or not, anything that disturbs the neighbours - day and night can't simply be ignored. No one would put up with any other kind of disturbance that went on this long. Yes, there are parents who genuinely try everything (sleepylittlebunnies - btw have you tried a night nanny? Leaving her with grandparents/friends?) but there are also people who just think 'tough, she'll learn' the hard way and often it's not so bad downstairs in your own home as it is in the room next door.

Speak to them, yes, they might be at the end of their tether, but rightly so are you!

say something, but be nice.
my ds was one of these, he refused to sleep in his own bed, so one night i decided to make him. he screamed for ages.
next day my neighbour mentioned it, not in a nasty way. and I thought.
ok thats not good and re looked at it.
at the end of the day it is down to the parent to sort, a neighbour should nut have to suffer this,

OP I think the fact you've taken the time to find an appropriate forum to ask the opinions of parents before approaching our neighbours for me says that your intention is not to be unreasonable and you want to find a positive and constructive way of changing things for all involved.

I don't think YABU for becoming fed up of this for 4 months, you're right that you wouldn't have put up with the noise if it was for any other reason (parties, dog, music). I think that's a logical way to look at it and you are also trying to be understanding by thinking through your approach before jumping head long in during a moment of insomnia induced anger as many people would.

I would say something to them, I agree with many pp on here that there are things that can be done, I would be equally frustrated both for the child and myself as the neighbour that he was being ignored on a regular basis during these episodes (eg they are sitting in front of tv). My son has had phases of similar problems and during those times I have usually sat with him for nights on end until he gets through it. My neighbours take their DD out for a drive in the car at 9pm every night.

Yes it will be frustrating to the parents, more so than you, but frankly that's their problem to deal with and it shouldn't be yours beyond the realms of the patience and understanding that I think you've shown already.

I would take a sympathetic approach, but also specifically request a constructive change such as him moving rooms (if it would help). This is not being unreasonable but their response to this will tell you their approach to the situation and whether it's worth you pursuing it any further.

Another option... Kill them with kindness... Tell them you understand how hard it must be for them and offer to babysit one night to give them a break!! Then you'd know first hand what they go through which may make a difference for you, whilst hopefully building up a relationship with them that might make them think of you as a person not a blank face next door.

I wouldn't go offering any parenting advice.. They will have heard it all before and will immediately disregard anything coming from a non-parent.

Let us know how you get on!

We are the noisy ones. Sleep training is impossible because every time he opens his mouth we worry about tye neighbours getting arsy.

It's extremely draining, but in their shoes I'd want to know....maybe they could swap rooms?

OP, I don't think YABU. Honestly 4 months is a long time and if the sound is exactly the same time and the noise is the same, clearly the parents haven't changed their tactics to fix it. We all know as parents that you always have to try to be one step ahead. It's crap, but I something doesn't work, you have to try something else and you have to keep trying until it's fixed.

DD went through exactly the same thing at about 30 months old after always having slept through from 5 weeks old. It was a bloody huge shock and I had no idea what to do. I sought advice (on here IIRC) and from family and started sitting in her room, slowly edging myself out until she fell asleep.

If this little boy is crying and screaming constantly from a certain time, they're obviously not doing this, otherwise he wouldn't still be screaming.

Definitely have a word.

fergus why not speak to the neighbours and say that you are going to 'sleep train' your DS and it shouldn't take more than a few nights - take chocolate if you can afford to :) People generally don't mind if they know what's going on and/or it doesn't go on for 4 months! (without at least an apology).

...otherwise he wouldn't still be screaming.

LOLOL. Yes, because all children are identical and can be "fixed" in the same time frame with the same method. :o

I bet the parents are having a ball. It's just like having a party.

Is there a way to drop it into casual conversation like our old NDN's used to do? I think it's a lot more polite and doesn't cause any unnecessary friction or tension. They used to just comment "Oh are the kids sick at the minute?" "yeah they've got a cold, I'm sorry for the noise!" "oh that's ok, it's going round at the minute isn't it. I've just got over one myself, it must be even worse for little ones. See ya later!"
I'm not entirely sure if you could use the illness but possibly you could as a guise then the neighbour might feel awful you could hear and explain what's been going on.

We're the noisy ones with three DC under 5 and trust me we do all we can to keep it as quiet as possible but small children (children in general?) are essentially noise machines. Tantrums, crying and screaming fits, squabbles and playing vairy loudly is all part of the parcel. Some neighbours have all night parties, drill and hammer on walls till all hours and blast their TV all day and night long. That's unreasonable. It's pretty difficult to keep children noise down, try as we parents do... And councils won't touch noise from children, it's just part of having neighbours I'm afraid.

A top tip from me, if possible, is to live in a 'professionals' area rather than family/mixed area. Or soundproof your walls.

YANBU. We had this on and off for 18 months with our neighbour's first and then second child at their bedtime and then during the night. It nearly drove us insane, especially as it would regularly wake up my two DCs. Their children screamed, called out and then, as a final tactic, having got out of bed, would repeatedly kick at the door - often the whole lot going on for two-three hours. Initially they would go up to the children, as you could hear the change in wailing when they retreated again, but for the past year didn't go up. Often the kids spentthe last 30 minutes shouting out for water as they had roared themselves hoarse.

After a particularly bad night, I knocked on the door and ask them if they realised how much noise could be heard through the walls and whether they could move the children to another bedroom (they're end of terrace) as they were in the room on the party wall. They were amazed at the realisation that they were affecting anyone else, so don't assume that they're aware of the disturbance!

It did the trick although now I hear the children screaming during the day and kicking at the front door in rage but at least that's only disturbing my work and not the sleep of my family.

Some people really do live in a bubble (perhaps a sleep deprived one) where they have no inkling how their lives have consequences for others so, as long as you are calm and polite, do knock the door and have a conversation. Good luck!

Sleepybunnies, I'm sure you have already, but have you looked into the link between dairy and eczema? My DN suffered horrifically until his mum cut out dairy and he's like a different child.

OP - I don't think you're being unreasonable, I would have a quiet word and just mention that you can hear everything and it's starting to disturb your sleep.

Yeah, I've said before. We just get excruciatingly embarrassed and end up co sleeping ... Duh.

OP - They should have at least apologised to you by now and you do need to speak to them but perhaps don't try to give them advice on how to raise/sleep train their child if you haven't any experience of doing the same with your own kids or professionally, it might not be received very well...

It's perfectly reasonable though to ask the neighbours if they can move their child to another room. You're being disturbed frequently, do speak to them.

I remember bumping into my neighbour when dd was sleeping terribly as a baby and apologising for the noise. She took one look at the state I was in, put her arm round me and told me how she had used controlled crying for her (now grown up) kids and advised me to do the same before dp and I fell apart at the seams. She was really supportive and her advice was spot on for us.

YANBU. Yes parenting is hard, yes the parents are probably exhausted but they are not the only people on the planet. The parents being upset is not actually more important than the OP getting sleep!

I think as long as you are polite and say "i imagine it must be worse for you but the crying is affecting me quite badly, is there anything I can do to help and is there anything you could try to help me?"

a bit passive aggressive perhaps but better than being too balls out! They might not take it well or they might apologise and stop leaving the baby to scream!

In the peak of my sleep deprived nights I would have been mortified and upset and also a bit resentful to get complaints as she you are suffering from lack of sleep you can become very down... as I am sure you now know! But its got to be dealt with.

We got a letter a month or so ago saying crying children would be considered the same as Barking dogs or any other inconsiderate noise by environmental health, so could parents please be considerate towards other people.

I presume it was generated because of complaints about a house a few doors down, whose child seems to cry all night every night. I hadn't complained, but it looks like some people did.

It seems to have worked, she hasn't cried much since, but it does feel a bit passive aggressive.

YANBU. I know a screaming child isn't like loud music that can just be switched off, but it sounds as if the parents aren't even trying to deal with the situation which is unfair on next door neighbours.

There was a similar thread a couple of weeks ago and some posters even objected to the suggestion that the screaming child be brought into another room where the noise would impact less on the people in the flat below. There has to be some onus on parents to do their very best to limit the disruption to neighbours being caused by their child. Saying 'oh well it's very hard on them too and I'm sure they're exhausted' really isn't sufficient, in my opinion.

Well the op has the option of getting better ear plugs, staying elsewhere for a night, sleeping during the day.
My babies are terrible sleepers. There's nothing I can do to change that. Believe me, there's is nothing I want more, nothing, than a decent nights sleep.
Our house is detached so no disturbing neighbours, but if someone came round to Complain I would not be able to respond rationally.