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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think it's nuts to serve nuts on an aeroplane?

134 replies

ontosecondary · 13/10/2014 16:09

www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2787807/british-airways-denies-request-not-serve-nuts-flight.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

and to hope that someone knows why airlines persist in doing this?

OP posts:
TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 14/10/2014 09:36

" he asked if a certain sweet contained nuts and then announced casually that "well, I do have an eppipen if they do," shock he was far more relaxed about it than I was. grin and actually that's the way it should be"

Hmm. Like Natalie Giorgi or Rehan Butt? "It's OK, we have an epipen" is a bit of a high-risk strategy, TBH.

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 14/10/2014 09:38

He says he mentioned it on booking, OwlCapone -- BA say they have no record of that.

I will say that having previously dealt with both (a) parents of nut-allergic children, and (b) BA, I am inclined to believe him rather than them on that one.

Andro · 14/10/2014 12:00

as it's so easy to do a cheese biscuit type replacement

Here's the problem; if that biscuit had cheese on/in it, all it would take is for you to cough or sneeze - or the biscuit to splinter - and you may have avoided putting a peanut allergic child in danger but you've put someone like me in danger instead. Where do you stop? On a jumbo jet there are hundreds of people...where do you start to manage all the possible allergies and make it safe for everyone?

Longdistance · 14/10/2014 12:19

That little girl has a photo of her, with a plate of melted chocolate, and marshmallows on a stick. Are they 100% that that chocolate wasn't produced in a factory that has nuts?

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 12:43

We booked a flight to Florida with BA about 18 months ago and when I booked I was assured that only first class would be served nuts and that an announcement would be made to let people know that there was a child, my dd, with a severe nut allergy.

I was worried but felt assured by this.

When we boarded, I did as instructed and mentioned to the flight attendant that dd had a sever nut allergy. The flight attendant then went to get the head steward. She basically told me that the company policy was and had been for a while, that they would not make announcements on a flight to let passengers know and this was the worst bit, that it was up to me whether we stayed on board and took the flight. We were free to get off if we wanted to. We decided that we would take the flight but it was very stressful and we haven't flown since. I couldn't believe that they promised me one thing when we booked but as soon as they'd had our money they changed the rules.

I couldn't believe their attitude towards a 4 year old. And I won't fly with them again.

I know people might still have eaten whatever had the announcement not been made, but I just thought that if they knew there was the potential for something serious, they might choose to avoid stuff as that's what I would do and would have done before DD came along.

It's as if people can't possibly survive for a few hours without some things. It's a bit crazy.

Thankfully DD didn't need her Epipen on the flight but did need piriton a couple of times.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 12:49

Had the announcement been made.

AgaPanthers · 14/10/2014 12:58

According to Dr. Matthew Greenhawt, a Research Direct in allergies and paediatrics, it is impossible for nuts to circulated through a plane's air con system: allergicliving.com/2014/08/21/anaphylaxis-in-the-air-two-recent-airline-incidents/

"The short answer is that it is highly unlikely for a passenger to inhale nut protein from someone consuming nuts a few rows in front of him/her. There is no evidence that has been able to show that such dust circulates. Five studies in the past 10 years have addressed this concept and found the following (favorable) results:

a) Close range (12 inches) exposure to inhaling peanut butter resulted in no reaction in severely reactive peanut allergic subjects.

b) Peanut dust could not be detected in the air from stomping on peanuts on the floor or from opening an airline-style bag. If a scientific measuring tool is placed an inch or two above peanuts being de-shelled, dust can be briefly detected in very low quantities (300 micrograms), but only while the item is being de-shelled. As soon as the shelling stops, dust is no longer detectable. This implies that the dust settles, rather than circulates.

c) Peanut butter and peanut dust are both easily cleaned from hands and surfaces using a variety of commercially available cleaners.

Smelling pre-roasted nuts being re-warmed on board is similar to the smell of peanut butter (which was proven to not cause reactions). This may not make concerned passengers more comfortable, but most experts agree that there are no active proteins involved in breathing in the aroma of re-heated, pre-roasted nuts.

Apart from reactions where one eats a contaminated food, airline reactions most likely occur from allergen that may accumulate on surfaces. This we know happens in many different environments. On the plane, without being aware, one could potentially touch a surface that hadn’t been wiped down first, and theoretically ingest some level of allergen. In fact, from my own studies and studies I’ve reviewed, I’m suspicious that this surface contact may be more of a problem than the air being inhaled. The good news is that pre-cleaning your personal seating area surfaces can reduce the risk of an unintended, unnoticed ingestion.

Is re-circulated air on an airplane likely to contain enough airborne allergens to cause reactions throughout the plane?

Dr. Greenhawt: It is very unlikely that someone would inhale a dose of an airborne allergen. Airflow dynamics for commercial jets actually mandate that there is frequent air-exchange and HEPA filtration of that air. Depending on the type of aircraft, its age, and its make, there are varying levels of air exchange between the cabin and the sky, meaning that there is minimal “re-circulation” of the same air during a flight. A nice explanation for this can be found here.

Have you ever heard of a situation similar to the Ryanair case (i.e. a suspected severe airborne reaction on an airplane)?

Dr. Greenhawt: I have had the opportunity to conduct two large studies of airline reactions, and reactions by inhalation were reported in both studies. Stories of similar types of reported reactions make the news from time to time, are reported to advocacy groups, or can be read about on the Internet. However, it is strongly felt that it is very hard to say with any certainty that the allergen in these situations was inhaled. Again, there is no evidence to show that peanut or tree nut circulates in the air, as opposed to it quickly settling on surfaces. In such situations, it is likely that there is some unnoticed ingestion of settled dust on a surface through casual hand-to-mouth contact. This type of ingestion may be overlooked when potentially focusing on someone nearby who may be eating a nut-containing item, which may mistakenly be presumed by the passenger to be the trigger.

In my 2012 study, we actually showed a decreased risk of reporting an in-flight reaction associated with wiping down one’s seating area. We feel this is a simple, proactive, and effective strategy that removes residue, thus decreasing the chance of inadvertent contact leading to unnoticed ingestion. However, we also realize that many people still assume or report their child has had an airborne reaction, in spite of the available evidence that this is highly unlikely to occur."

neolara · 14/10/2014 13:37

I know someone who had to inject their grandson with an epipen midair because they had an allergic reaction to nuts. I don't know how far away the nuts were or who opened them.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 13:40

That's interesting.

DD's allergy doctor is one of the few in this country who deals with allergies and we are very lucky that Dd is under his care.

He said that peanuts and eggs, are very 'sticky'. It isn't easy to clean traces of peanut and egg either off a person or surfaces, hard and soft. He did an experiment I. His home where he prepared a peanut butter sandwich, and then ate it, and cleaned up as he usually would. After that the surfaces where he made to sandwich, and other surfaces he came I to contact with, including his pillow, traces of peanut protein were found. Hence the term sticky. Washing with hot soapy water seems to be the most effective way of removing allergens.

Also, there are cases of children who react on entering a room where peanuts are present, so airborne or not, there is a sensitivity there.

On the flight, people who eat things like that, usually don't want their hands. They brush eir hands against each other and drop bits of salt, flavouring, crumbs onto surfaces. They walk along the aisle, touching seat backs. Loo doors, loo seats, taps etc with their hands.

From my DD's perspective, it is those contacts, crumbs etc that would cause her a problem.

So although that person performed a study to disprove the airborne risks, the contact risks still remain.

As a parent of a child with sever allergies, it is a nightmare. An announcement might not have helped, but at least people would have know that there was the potential of a problem. Diverting a flight to another airport due to a medical emergency would be more of an inconvenience for most passengers rather than simply not providing nuts.

I do get that there are lots of other allergies and where do you stop, but things like peanuts aren't so easy to clean. Personally I think nuts should not be served on flights at all.

AgaPanthers · 14/10/2014 13:43

"So although that person performed a study to disprove the airborne risks, the contact risks still remain."

That's what he says. The point he makes is that you are 100000000x more at risk from the passenger on the last flight who ate a bag of dusty peanuts (the ones on BA are I think cashews?) in your seat, than someone serving warm cashews (which I think they do on BA) a few rows away.

BA cashews aren't particularly 'sticky' or dusty. But peanuts certainly can be. But you would have to ban people bringing their own peanuts on the flight.

An announcement on an individual flight won't help at all.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 13:44

I should have said, it's hard due to the fact that as a child, she constantly has her hands in her eyes, up her nose, in her mouth, on her face. As she grows up, she'll get better at those things so hopefully things will be a bit easier, for me at least as I won't have to watch her like a hawk, as I do now.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 13:44

I know. ??

naty1 · 14/10/2014 13:49

Maybe the next step would be to test the seats on planes that serve nuts then as im sure i saw that some airlines dont leave much time for cleaning the plane.
Now imagining nut covered hands all over plane.

hiddenhome · 14/10/2014 14:07

People can still die even after administration of the Epipen Hmm

An Epipen buys you about 10 minutes until the ambulance arrives. It is not a miracle cure all.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 14:08

That was supposed to be a crying face after my I know.

Aga, I know you're right, but if an app noun cement meant people might be more careful, then that might help.

I know it's unrealistic, which is why we decided that we wouldn't fly again. Not unless there are nut free flights or dd outgrows her allergies. She has loads of them. It's really difficult.

Siarie · 14/10/2014 14:25

TeamScotland in my scenario it or course would make sense for the least amount of people not to take the plane ride. Which equates to those with severe allergies.

I do think it's unrealistic to ask such a large number of people to abide by certain food regulations. It's doable but unrealistic. If I happen to have a child with a severe allergy then I would have to look at the risks and assess them myself. If that means I can no longer use planes then so be it. Better an alive child than a dead well travelled one.

Newbiecrafter · 14/10/2014 14:25

App noun cement = announcement. Stupid ipad!

Greengrow · 14/10/2014 14:27

I was on a flight once where a family near us (I had no nuts that day) pointed out to the cabin staff they could not be around nuts. They moved the child and one parent into business class to seats at the front of the plane further away from anyone else.

I just about travel everywhere with things like eggs, nuts, fruit, veg, fish. My daughter took massive packs of nuts 14 days ago when she flew out to Jordan and joked to us that it would be her provisions when she was kidnapped by ISIS.

I do think we need ore publicity about nut and other allegeries so that those of us who are happy to protect others know exactly what we can and cannot eat on flights.

Andrewofgg · 14/10/2014 16:58

Always glad to be corrected as re Eurostar.

But on a plane, a coach, a train, if your neighbour has been eating peanuts before boarding and stinks of them, or coughs and sneezes fragments up, what then?

I don't see how Eastpoint's friends can fly at all. You cannot rule out any possibility of peanut being around, can you?

ontosecondary · 14/10/2014 17:58

Huh. Interesting.

Now I have to think this all through again.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 14/10/2014 18:04

For those with severe allergies then try crusing - they were amazing with my sisters allergies and gave her menus each night to pick her meal for the next night which they ensured was prepared safely for him

ontosecondary · 14/10/2014 18:10

Can I ask, what is the treatment for someone having severe allergic reaction and can it be delivered in an aeroplane?

Still thinking about the old-peanut-on-the-seat-is-worse-than-dust issue....

OP posts:
Icimoi · 14/10/2014 18:19

BA went one better on a flight I was on recently, by serving nuts with sesame. Allergy to sesame is also increasing in prevalence.

Quite apart from the risk issue, you would think they ought to realise that they should at least give people a choice. If you're going to provide snacks, it's not fair that the only ones on offer are things that around 10% of the passengers will be unable to eat.

hiddenhome · 14/10/2014 18:29

Treatment for a severe allergic reaction consists of an epinephrine injection which helps to support the body until the allergic reaction is under control. This can be achieved with steroids and antihistamine. Some people will still die regardless of how much treatment they are given though.

There is only so much a person can do if they're flying and miles from hospital. We are given two Epipens and Cetirizine (an antihistamine) whilst going around our day to day business, including flying. If ds hit unlucky, he'd need to go to hospital for steroids and more adrenaline and artificial ventilation if necessary.

Greengrow · 14/10/2014 18:30

Good point about if we eat before. Sometimes if food is liquid you have to eat it before you get on the plane so someone might have just finished a lot of nuts, have them all over their hands and bits on their clothes and be in the next seat.