Was my DDs imaginary friend a ghost?

[MrsDylanThomas]

The time of year for such a thread but anyway...!

My DD is now 6 but when she was just 2.5/under age 3 she had an imaginary friend called William. Very young to have an imaginary friend IMO. For a period of about 3 weeks she spoke to William, 'read' books to him and if we were in the park she would stop and say 'C'mon William! Hurry up' whereas she was talking to thin air.

All very normal imaginary friend behaviour.

But one evening around this time, I asked her where was William? I was kind of joking. I remember we were sitting together on the couch before bedtime and she said 'William has gone to college where he lives'.

Turns out my husband's grandfather was called William (they called him Billy) and he worked in the accounts department of a university.

I asked her about him the other day as was thinking about it and she said she often talks to him at bedtime of if she's worried about anything. She's a happy, sociable and clever child so don't think it's anything to worry about.

But I just think William is a name she didn't hear in crèche, or in stories and I didn't think she knew the word 'college' at that age.

Her other imaginary friend was called Alice. I thought it was from Alice in wonderland but (chillingly) my husband's granny was called Alice!

Sorry to spoke you out mumsnetters. Am I filling in gaps or AIBU? Love to hear your thoughts!

I'm not at all surprised that so many people believe in woo in this day and age. People have by and large turned away from mainstream religion and woo possibly fills that gap that religion used to provide.

When I was a child, I used to awake because I felt someone sit on the edge of the bed. I would wake up, and an almost see through old man was sitting there. He was friendly-looking. He would pass me a golden ball of light in his left hand, I would sit up to take it and he would disappear. Happened a few times.
And i had an imaginary friend when younger.
Hth

VermillionPorcupine surely that argument works both ways though. If it's pig headed to claim that there is definitely no such thing as ghosts/aliens/whatever then surely it's just as pig headed for someone to claim that these things definitely do exist.

Yet oddly enough I haven't seen you bash the believers in this thread and accuse them of being idiots because they "know" ghosts exist...

You can never, ever have absolute proof and conviction that something does not exist.

Well of course not because as it's already been pointed out you cannot have evidence for non existence. Something has to exist before it can provide evidence of anything.

Catsize - I've also woken up to see a figure on the end of my bed, or standing by the curtains, or walking towards me. Mine weren't benevolent though, they were scary.

They weren't ghosts, they were a product of my brain, which dissolved in front of me when my brain fully awoke. It's quite a common experience, and goes together with sleep paralysis. Can't remember the official name for it, but it's not supernatural.

Genuine story:

When my son was 2 we were walking our dogs on a path through a graveyard. All of a sudden my son starts interacting with thin air, giggling and saying his friend is funny, stopping to listen and then chatting back. Kept saying his friend was in the puddles. Very bizarre behaviour.

My husband joked "I bet he is playing with a ghost", so I replied I would prove this was rubbish. I asked my son what his new friend was called and he said Johnathan. I started getting a bit creeped at this point as we do not know any Johns or Johnathan, there are none at nursery, and it is not a name I have noticed on his favorite TV shows.

I told him to show me where Johnathan's house was. He ran over to a grave and pointed at it.

It was a child's grave and the name was Johnathan. At 2 years old, my son could not have read the name.

Scared the crap out of me at the time.

They weren't ghosts, they were a product of my brain, which dissolved in front of me when my brain fully awoke. It's quite a common experience, and goes together with sleep paralysis. Can't remember the official name for it, but it's not supernatural.

Yes this happens to me when i am very tired or stressed. I seem to have a theme of black animals. I very clearly see and hear them in my room, on my bed, moving around. I have had. A black bat, rat, cat (i know- they rhyme too ) and spider. The cat was so real that i thought it was my actual black cat and started calling him but when i gave my head a shake i saw my door was closed and cat was in the landing. I am under no illusions about what these 'visions' were- a figment of my imagination due to stress.

VermillionPorcupine surely that argument works both ways though. If it's pig headed to claim that there is definitely no such thing as ghosts/aliens/whatever then surely it's just as pig headed for someone to claim that these things definitely do exist

It depends on whether an individual has their own 'proof'. If for instance I had ever seen a ghost and been 100% certain it was a ghost (I haven't) - then it wouldn't be pig headed of me to say ghosts existed because I've seen one - obviously whether you believe someone who says they've seen one is up to you.

Regarding religion, even the devoutly religious would be stupid to state that God actually, 100% definitely exists. And I've never, ever heard a Christian say that. They believe he exists, sure - that's where faith comes in. But no one has proof. So you can't insist he doesn't exist - anymore than you can insist he does.

You told your son to show you where Jonathan lived? Really? You automatically knew that jonathan lived near enough for you 2 year old to take you there and that jonathan had already shown your son whilst you were standing watching him 'talk' to jonathan without you noticing that jonathan had taken your son to his grave?

When I was a child I lived in a house that was haunted.
As in blessed by 2 priests and we were advised to leave.
Phenomena witnessed by many people including a police officer and a family member who was in the Para's.

It depends on whether an individual has their own 'proof'. If for instance I had ever seen a ghost and been 100% certain it was a ghost (I haven't) - then it wouldn't be pig headed of me to say ghosts existed because I've seen one - obviously whether you believe someone who says they've seen one is up to you.

I have seen a couple of things that may be ghosts, however I do not believe 100% ghosts exist. There are other logical explanations eg hallucination.

You told your son to show you where Jonathan lived? Really? You automatically knew that jonathan lived near enough for you 2 year old to take you there and that jonathan had already shown your son whilst you were standing watching him 'talk' to jonathan without you noticing that jonathan had taken your son to his grave?

Yes, exactly that. Son was taking to his "friend" I asked him the name, he said Johnathan, I asked where does he live.

He was talking to friend on the path. He is not allowed off the path normally as I think it is disrespectful children running around graves.

I asked him the name, he said Johnathan, I asked where does he live.

Ahh- now asking where he lives and asking him to show you were he lives (which is what you said in previous post) are two different things. Which was it? It matters because one is a perfectly natural thing to ask when humouring your toddler. The other is a very strange thing to ask.

Vermillion so you are willing to dismiss Father Christmas and the a Tooth Fairy because you know that it's mum and dad. If a child came up to you and said the presents magically appeared and it wasn't mum and dad because they said it wasn't and anyway they don't have any money so it couldn't have been them, you'd be thinking perhaps they got a loan or it was an aunt or someone else. Right?

But even though loads of psychics are frauds and have shown to be frauds, and we know there are various methods by which you can convince people you are psychic without actually being psychic (see e.g. Derren Brown) you are still open-minded as to the possibility that they are actually psychic?

But you weren't open-minded to the possibility that it was actually Father Christmas that brought the presents.

What's the difference?

I've also had an experience which some could claim was a ghost. But I'm not 100% sure they do/do not exist.

My mum (I was about 15) was in the lounge with her back to me when she jumped about a foot in the air and turned and told me to pack it in. I went and said I hadn't touched her. A second later she jumped again and went 'OWWW' and was clutching her hand. She turned as white as a sheet, raced upstairs to check on the baby (my sister aged 6 months) who was fine, then came rushing down in a panic and told me to go get my 6 year old sister from next door.

As I was getting up the neighbour started pounding on the door. She was holding my sister who was unconscious and covered in blood with her hand wrapped up in towels. She'd slammed a door all the way shut on her fingers and had passed out from the pain. Two of her fingers were almost severed, she had to have surgery and was lucky to keep them.

When I spoke to my mum afterwards she said she'd felt someone whack her hard on the shoulder which was why she turned around and had a go. Then she felt the pain in her hand and said she was overcome with this awful feeling that something was wrong, which is why she wanted to check all her dc.

I don't know if that's my 'proof' that something exists - ghosts, mothers intuition...who knows. But it's definitely unexplained and my very logical brain struggles to come to any reasonable explanation.

I saw a Victorian lady leaning over my dds crib and my DD chatting to her when she was about 1.5. When my DD got put down for a nap and was crying or gurgling upstairs, whatever electrical thing I was using (hoover,TV) would turn itself off. It was like she was chivvying me along! Every so often I would find myself unpromted saying something to her, like we were in the middle of a conversation. I quite liked whoever she was! On a scarier note I do know someone who had the scary man in their room sitting on their feet- she lived next to me in halls of residence and she came through to my room after. I've never seen anyone so scared. She was pretty stressed with exams - I'd definitely say that was a psychological phenomenon. I heard a radio show talking about this years later and recognised it. Apparently its the basis of the myth about hags, because a lot of people to wake up to a horrible old woman sitting on their chest. Anyway, thought I would add my tuppence of wooooooo...

It depends on whether an individual has their own 'proof'. If for instance I had ever seen a ghost and been 100% certain it was a ghost (I haven't) - then it wouldn't be pig headed of me to say ghosts existed because I've seen one - obviously whether you believe someone who says they've seen one is up to you.

But how would you be 100% certain it was a ghost? How could you possibly know that there wasn't another explanation? Isn't it pig headed to jump to the conclusion that it must of been a ghost without thinking to yourself that it might of been something else?

I've had plenty of weird things happen to me and seen lots of strange things that I could put down to something woo however I do tend to think there were other explanations for these things.

Regarding religion, even the devoutly religious would be stupid to state that God actually, 100% definitely exists. And I've never, ever heard a Christian say that. They believe he exists, sure - that's where faith comes in. But no one has proof. So you can't insist he doesn't exist - anymore than you can insist he does.

I've met many Christians who have claimed that God "definitely" exists and have accused me of being an idiot because I didn't believe.

Jelly - I had the opposite. I ate tomatoes most days when expecting DS1. He is the only one of my children who likes them though DS2 will eat them in spag bol or shepherd's pie.

*I asked him the name, he said Johnathan, I asked where does he live.

Ahh- now asking where he lives and asking him to show you were he lives (which is what you said in previous post) are two different things. Which was it? It matters because one is a perfectly natural thing to ask when humouring your toddler. The other is a very strange thing to ask.*

Firstly this was over a year ago and so I cannot remember the exact sentence construction. It could have been either of the above.

All I can remember is I was trying to disprove husband's comment over the ghost.

Although it creeped me out at the time, my logical explanation is he went past several graves and my subconscious body language could have indicated to him that by coincidence we had found a matching grave.

I have no idea whether ghosts exist or not. I have seen 2, but that does not prove anything as on both occasions I was walking my dogs when it was dark and I could have been mistaken. Our brains are hardwired to recognise faces from very early in development. It is therefore possible I could have seen something out the corner of my eye and my brain literally joined the dots to make it into a human figure.

So yes op, I do believe that it could be a ghost.

Noblegiraffe you are really clutching at straws? You don't see the difference?

200 years of experience of adults, plus my own experience of having children have 'proven' to me that the fat guy in a red suit does not exist. It's well documented where the stories of FC began and how they progressed. So yes, if a child told me that then I would disbelieve them...no, i'm not open to the possibility that maybe on this one occasion FC turned up. I'm open to possibilities...i'm not an idiot.

But even though loads of psychics are frauds and have shown to be frauds, and we know there are various methods by which you can convince people you are psychic without actually being psychic (see e.g. Derren Brown) you are still open-minded as to the possibility that they are actually psychic?

THIS ^^ is a completely different situation. I love Derren brown and I find NLP fascinating. I'm well aware that there are thousands of frauds out there who make poor attempts to prove they are psychic. But the existence of one person (a few probabaly...DB being one of them) who demonstrates astounding ability at NLP and it's derivatives, is not 'proof' that actual psychic ability does not exist, in some, at all.

One of my favourite conspiracy theories about DB is that actually he IS psychic and his whole 'i'm not psychic' persona is the actual fraud, because it makes a fascinating stage act if you think he has no psychic ability [brain explodes]

My DS when he was 2.5 said to a random lady in a que at sainsburys that, Jacob is ok and said he keeps touching the dog figure.

Lady turned to me and said that Jacob died 2 months ago and the dog figure keeps being moved even though she now lives alone. Jacob being her husband.

I have never got my head around that one, the lady was shopping alone so want like my DS picked up on the conversation.

I don't believe in ghosts either

All I can remember is I was trying to disprove husband's comment over the ghost.

I think the very fact you thought asking 2 year old anything would disprove the presence of a ghost just adds to the idea that you are maybe a bit gullible and had already bought into the idea that there was indeed a ghost. Were you expecting your son to say "dont be silly mummy, i'm just pretending. Ghosts arent real"? I mean what exactly could he have said that would have disproved the existence of any ghost?

But how would you be 100% certain it was a ghost? How could you possibly know that there wasn't another explanation? Isn't it pig headed to jump to the conclusion that it must of been a ghost without thinking to yourself that it might of been something else?

I don't suppose you'd know if you were certain unless you'd actually 'seen' one. For instance - waking to a fuzzy shape at the end of my bed which rapidly disappeared...for me, personally, that's no where near enough to convince me. However if I walked into my kitchen in the middle of the day and saw a man dressed in Victorian clothes, dripping blood who looked at me and spoke - and I looked at him for a full ten seconds before he disappeared in front of me - and I was not in any way ill or prone to hallucinations - for me that would be pretty irrefutable proof. No doubt most others would disbelieve it and explain it away - but that would pretty much close the case in my own mind.

For the individual, the level of proof they would need to be 100% certain depends on them...but for others who haven't experienced anything similar - it's impossible to say 100% certainly that they don't exist.

One of my favourite conspiracy theories about DB is that actually he IS psychic and his whole 'i'm not psychic' persona is the actual fraud, because it makes a fascinating stage act if you think he has no psychic ability [brain explodes]

that had never occurred to me, but it is an interesting possibility

It's well documented where the stories of FC began and how they progressed

Whereas there is no documented history of where the idea of a god came from? or no documented research on what people have actually experienced when they describe seeing 'ghosts' or hearing sounds?