To think £100k pa is NOT 'the squeezed middle'?

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The article is very confidently attributing the definition to Danny Dorling, but did he really name this figure?!

These women are fools.

I think it is human nature to want to up your life style to whatever you earn and for some people to a bit more than they earn.
When I was a very young mum getting my DC to school and then taking two buses to get to university with my flask of coffee in my bag I probably couldn't comprehend spending nearly 3 quid a day on a latte. That has become normal for me.
Sometimes you need to step back and look at what you have and appreciate it instead of wanting more or feeling stitched up because of higher taxes etc.

I am not sure what's so vulgar about that post?

The reason why there is, in general, gender pay disparity is because people don't share pay details.

I know generally what people in my industry earn, know what everyone earns in my workplace and so I know my value in the workplace.

Equally, outside of my industry I don't know exactly but either people tell you (normally tangentially) or you can make an intelligent guess. What's so vulgar about that?

Polonium - I think lawyers tend to be quite precise and astute so I wouldn't be surprised Atticus knows that kind of stuff. Maybe they don't discuss it around the dinner table but it's become common knowledge amongst her friends. Like you'd discuss the price of a painting or something with your artist friends. Are we all vulgar to be talking money on this thread?

People whinging about losing CB is usually a good sign that they earn over 60k (or one of them does)

totally agree novice

The taboo against discussing salary is what employers have used for donkeys to ensure their employees don't ask for higher/fairer wages. Plus it's important to know which jobs pay well so that those at the start of their careers can make informed choices. Knowledge is power.

I don't generally ask my friends what they earn, but I have a pretty good idea, and I do ask those friends who work in my industry as I want to know if I'm being paid fairly for my role. Don't see the problem with that. They can always say no if they don't want to tell me (nobody ever does say no though).

Yes, and in certain environments, where there is a culture of "flash the cash", it's easy to get really paranoid about your salary. I personally felt for years that I was being underpaid; my manager, who is ace, put those fears at rest without having to disclose anyone else's salary specifically, and as novice says, it has helped me know my place and that, in my case, there is no gender gap. It's done wonders for my self esteem and enthusiasm for my work.

I don't think anyone is whinging about losing CB. But some households lost it even though their household income is less than other households who still receive it.

Household A: 2 earners earning £35K per annum each.
Household B: 1 earner earning £70K per annum.

Household A earns £26,754 X 2 after tax and employee NI = £53,508
Household B earns £47,741 after tax and employee NI

And the mansion tax is just a success tax.

I should have added: household B in the illustration above will lose its CB. In spite of bringing less money into the household and being taxed more.

Meh.

Presumably, household A above also pay more in transport costs and childcare costs. It probably evens out. And they don't get to smug over household B and 'we're so lucky we can afford to stay at home and do our best'.

I am sure people don't say what they earn but you can get an idea of it. It's not vulgar to know. I often look at employment contracts so I see the wages in there (obviously not of friends). If someone is an NHS consultant it is not too hard to know what they are paid as the pay scales are public. We all have a rough idea what teachers earn etc etc

There are very important feminist issues about pay - too many women don't ask for more pay and don't feel worthy of pay rises. We have to stop that. I would like to be on a mums net in 5 years where more women than not earn more than their husbands. Secondly the law was changed fairly recently to enable people at work who think they suffer discriminatory pay obtaining details of what colleagues are receiving. It did not outlaw clauses in employment contracts which forbid you to disclose your pay (some contracts do that) but it allows the disclosure for the equal pay claims. That was a good change.

Also constantly on mumsnet on divorce threads you get women who do not have a clue what their husband earns, what is a pension and have never seen the family savings accounts figures or know what the bank statements will show. I think that's very silly.

of course none of us with any sense would show off to friends as to what you earn. In fact this week I've been trying to get zoopla to show my house is not worth £2m (it isn't worth that). Best to play things down. No one has ever robbed this house presumably because of the £1k cars outside and that it's full of children rather than art works.

Some information about earnings is readily available. For instance, lawyers in big firms are generally paid a similar rate (lock step) and equity partners' PPP (profits per partner) is another statistic readily available. If not in law (husband's territory) or media (mine) I have no idea what my friends or their husbands earn, and have never thought to ask.

people mix up needs and wants

my girls often say "I need" X and I explain to them they are confusing need and want.
my DP says to go easy on them as most adults don't know the distinction.

As I said before, we have a high income but I know that we can survive on much less (somebody above claimed they couldn't survive). that may mean giving up nights out, or selling the house and moving out if one of us loses our job, but survival isn't the issue. it's lifestyle. people should be clear on that. You may, gasp, have to send your child to state school.

I may have slightly more perspective because I didn't grow up in a wealthy family.

atticuslaw - vulgar vulgar vulgar. I have no idea how much my friends earn. And I certainly don't know about their pension arrangements. Ewww.

This wasn't an OP saying "Oh look how much my friends and I earn!" I posted that because I thought it would be helpful to the discussion. If you want to cringe over mention of salaries and have me pegged as a member of the petite bourgeoisie for daring to talk about money then I'd suggest you're on the wrong thread.

I'm an employment lawyer and so I have a very good idea of salaries. Consultant pay scales are public knowledge and my friends who own their own businesses are earning well over £100k. It's also just a matter of fact that if you're self employed/a business owner and structuring your money in a tax efficient way you are unlikely to have a company pension contribution.

Written I think the couples in the linked article had their wants and needs well and truly mixed up.

I know exactly what quite a few of my friends earn - because I do their taxes

bma.org.uk/practical-support-at-work/pay-fees-allowances/pay-scales/consultants-england

Consultants' pay scales that are public knowledge.

Talkinpeace -

I have really close friends who are partners at MC law firms and I have no idea how much they earn. I wouldn't dream of asking and I don't think they would share that information or ask me how much I earn when it's obvious none of us has a shortage of income.

There is one woman I know who asks personal questions like this and I would not call her a friend.

Again . Clearly I go around giving people chinese burns until they tell me their income.

If you also worked in said MC law firm you would know what the remuneration levels were.

Anyway, sneer away. I have visions of Maggie Smith in Downton looking down her nose at me.

Now she's not short of a few bob

I'll support Atticus on this one : any accountant or Lawyer has a pretty darned good idea what folks in the professions earn
because we know what our own salary / chargeout rate multiple is
and they are all the same
so if you know the fee scale for one person at a firm you can work out to within 10% what they all make

I'm firmly of the opinion that secrecy around salary works in favour of employers rather than employees so I'm happy to disclose my salary. First jobs were ones with payscales so I've always had an idea of what those around me earn.

I've never asked my friends as they're not in comparable careers but I can make educated guesses. I'd have no hesitation in asking someone in my line of work what they earnt, sod being vulgar.

PS
My salary is £7,955 for reasons that will be very obvious to any accountant

Someone up thread did make a good point, its not basic needs here, its often wants mixed up with needs. I dont think though that the silly twits in the article are alone and its not always people who earn lots of money who are like this.

I have mentioned on another thread that a friend worked for the local council helping people on benefits manage their bills etc. naturally the first thing she asked them to do was list out their outgoings. So, many people thought that things others would consider non essential like smoking, nights out, cable TV, new equipment for a child was considered to be a right. As was a mobile that one person told her had to be one that didnt make her look 'stupid' (ie. she wanted a premimum brand).

Just like that horrible Kyle show - where do they get these people from...