Alzheimer's and hospitals

[handcream]

I need some advice and whether I was unreasonable.

My DM has been admitted to hospital. She was moved 4 times in less than 12 hours but that isn't my concern. On a general ward a lady with severe Alzheimer's was put next to her, the nurses tried to change her, she was incontitent and she tried to bite and kick the three nurses who were dealing with her, she was shouting, swearing and screaming out. She was the same ages as my DM. After about an hour of listening to this and realising that it was nearing bedtime I felt I had to say something.

I asked that one of them be moved. I was fearful for my Mum in the middle of the night with this lady next to her.

Ironically they decided to move Mum anyway and she ended up opposite an elderly lady who rang the alarm bell every 30 mins and opposite a side room where the man insisted on shouting out and screaming when the ward phone rang (and wasn't answered in a timely fashion).

Was I unreasonable to think there must be better way to deal with patients with this horrible illness.

I would also consider that this ward had near enough mixed wards, think of a long corridor with bays of four beds, next to each other. Mum's bay was about 2 feet from the males one.

YANBU, you have not said anything disparaging about the poor lady with Dementia, you have just expressed understandable concern about your own DM's safety and wellbeing. Dementia is a terrible illness and those suffering from it can act out like that because of terrible fear and confusion. It's not fair on them or the other patients to leave them alone screaming or lashing out in distress. The answer is better staffed wards and better care within EMI nursing home environments to prevent many admissions which with better care could have been managed in a more suitable and familiar environment.

Hand cream , where do you suggest people with MH issues are nursed when they have physical health problems? People with dementia can disrupt a ward that isn't designed to cope with them, but your opinion is truly selfish! I hope no one in your family ends up with dementia & needing care for their physical health problems, you might eat your words then!

Meant to say, hope your Mum is getting better and out of hospital soon.

Thank you Ilove pud

It's not just a problem with dementia. The drugs you need to take because of surgery sometimes make you behave very badly in ways that you'd be ashamed of.

Anti-social bastards get sick too and they need to be treated.

I was in hospital two years ago and two patients on my floor were violent crackheads who were trying to let their dealers in.

The nurses were heroic and kept us safe and were incredibly dignified in the face of abuse. Not once did anyone complain. They kept saying: 'He/she's ill. It's the illness/drugs.'

Spongebob, I hope that you are never in this situation where an elderly parent is on a ward between two Alzheimer sufferers. You really won't mind or have any concerns- really??

Or is it easy to say what you have just said but much more difficult in real life

So if a parent is attacked you would honestly say it's ok its the illness?

YANBU. Yes Alzheimers is horrible but staff and other patients have a right to safety. One of my relatives has it and had to be sectioned after assaulting a patient.

I think a fine line has to be found where the Alzheimers sufferer is protected, but not at the expense of others who may be harmed. I don't know what the solution is but I hope there is one soon.

I am filled with awe at the incredible staff who deal with Alzheimers patients, and the families who care for them too.

I don't think it's selfish to worry in the way OP has done. My father had Alzheimer's. He attacked my mother at least once. I guess he did it other times but she just didn't say. He would never have done that if he was in his right mind.

She resisted him going into hospital or care because she was terrified of what they might do to him when he acted up because he didn't mean it. She didn't want him to hurt people but she didn't want them to hurt him either. And that's what happens to people like him because wards aren't properly staffed and segregated.

YANBU to think there should be better provisions for older people with dementia. YABU to expect your mum to be moved because there will always be people with erratic behaviours on wards. Older people do react in extreme ways in hospital, it's just the way it is.

I was in hospital a few years ago on a general medical ward, recovering from emergency surgery, in the next bed to me was an elderly lady with dementia was very scared and confused. At one point she tried to get up using the drip stand to pull herself up and fell over ripping the cannula out of my hand. It was dangerous and frightening for both of us. It's nothing to do with wanting to deny those with dementia access to the same medical care as everyone else but it is to deny their needs to assume that they can access that care in the same way as other patients with no additional support.

By the way, Alzheimer's Disease is degenerative neurological condition.

I can understand your concerns to a point, but your attitude towards Alzheimer's stinks and is very unreasonable.

Alzheimer's is an illness and those who suffer from it cannot help the symptoms. I would be extremely concerned for the other lady who was on the ward in distress, rather than trying to get away from her. I think your experience of hearing about a friend who knew someone with Alzheimer's is colouring your opinion too much. Most Alzheimer's patients don't lash out at random individuals. Yes they can be irritable towards those responsible for their care, but I would bet that lady posed little to no risk to your mum.

So if a parent is attacked you would honestly say it's ok its the illness?

Was that directed at me, OP? because if so, no. I've tried to make that plain.

It's very difficult and IME, hospital staff dealt with it well. But that's not always the case and I hope I haven't given the impression that you shouldn't be worried for your mother. I wish her a speedy recovery.

Please - I am definitely not saying that sufferers don't have the same access of everyone else but there must be a better way then the current set up.

It's terrifying being on a ward, unwell, vulnerable and have to share space with a disruptive patient no matter what the cause of the disruption.

Dementia is a horrendous condition for the sufferer and their family but having been a patient on a surgical ward on a bay with 3 dementia patients it is terrifying. I also found myself having to help the nurses care for these ladies and return them to bed - or at least talk them into returning to bed - as it wasn't worth bothering the nurses. We also had a frequent male visitor from the next bay who also had dementia and he was violent and very vocal but his presence set the ladies off. It was horrible

I can safely say do not ever get ill at Christmas hospitals seem to be a dumping ground sadly

But what's the answer? It's a social care issue surely? More community nursing and community hospitals to nurse and care for those with UTI's and skin infections?

Well, let's hear your ideas you if you know a better way.

I did find a better way for Mum. A wonderful Nursing Home who did everything they could to keep their residents from going into hospital. They treated her urine infections immediately which kept her out of hospital and kept the halucinations down somewhat. Still heart breaking to see her like that. She was there for nearly a year and the end of life care was brilliant. My mum was treated with respect, dignity and love the whole time.

Sometimes people with dementia need hospital treatment. Where I work, the local authority are spending millions on healthcare 'wards' in the community and other areas are doing similar. Despite admissions going down in huge numbers, it does not negate the fact that some people will still need to be admitted.

Community care is certainly the way forwards and tbh most problems can be managed on such 'virtual wards' where they're not in hospital but are managed by joint agency working.

If someone is that seriously Unwell that course of management isn't working then surely using the side rooms is the answer?

Alzheimer's is an illness and those who suffer from it cannot help the symptoms. I would be extremely concerned for the other lady who was on the ward in distress, rather than trying to get away from her.

Oh come off it. My father had Alzheimer's. I loved him more than life itself but in his worst moments I would not have inflicted him on people and if he could have expressed himself, he'd have said the same.

Nursing homes should be funded by the individual surely?

Better joined up health and social care would help I think, so that patients who need 1 to 1 supervision can be accompanied by a member of staff from their nursing home who understands their needs, how to best communicate with them and knows what strategies work best to manage their distress.