To Consider Giving up US Citizenship?

[NotFunBeingAnAmericanInLondon]

Posting here for traffic.

Desperate to talk to other US citizens settled in Britain who doubt they will be returning to the US for personal reasons.

Am I the only one who's been here so long I didn't notice the FBAR thing? I don't file FATCAs, but I am never sure. What are we supposed to do if our British born, dual US citizen kids have CTFs? I have a SIPP with mutual funds in it, my accountants tell me not to even bother mentioning it now?! Apparently this is a time bomb for later.

Social Security and State Pension are supposed to be reciprocal, but I cannot get any information from anyone.

I used to file my own 1040 forms, but now that there are so many forms to file with the threat of prison if I mess up that I am truly cowed and pay someone else £400 a year to file for me. And I am a housewife with no income!

The state department has just raised the cost of expatriation from $450 to $2500 which worries me even more.

I wonder, should I just give up my citizenship now and make life much easier?It's a lot of worry and stress to carry around for emotional/nostaligic reasons.

If you do the streamlined compliance you only do 3 years.

QueenStromba - the compliance used to require 6 years of tax returns, but it has been brought down to the last 3 years of tax returns and 6 years of FBARs. Have a look at the US Embassy in London website and search for Streamlined Compliance Procedure for (something like) non-resident non payers. The information on the procedure is all there.

You need to do 5 years of returns to be clear of the IRS and the expatriation tax, but it's only 3 to become compliant. I wasn't asked anything about previous years.

I meant... 5 years of returns to be clear of the IRS if you renounce. If you don't renounce, you have to do returns and FBARs every year.

Boris J I think is renouncing at least in part because he has to pay US capital gains tax on sale of a property in the UK

After all this, DH is ready to renounce. It's all too preposterous for words. He got so upset on me tonight about it. Live free or die....unless you are an American in the 21st century

After all this, DH is ready to renounce. It's all too preposterous for words. He got so upset on me tonight about it. Live free or die....unless you are an American in the 21st century

After all this, DH is ready to renounce. It's all too preposterous for words. He got so upset on me tonight about it. Live free or die....unless you are an American in the 21st century

It's actually crazy that the US can impose rules that affect how people who are also citizens of other countries live. My DS was born here in the US (and we are British) and I feel awful that I've inflicted this upon him.

I have a question. DH and I file joint taxes here in the US as we have been living here temporarily for the past couple of years. I can't work due to the visa we have (I am a dependent on DH's visa). I am about to inherit a substantial amount of money in the UK (unexpected terminal illness of family member) and I suspect that as we file jointly, we will be liable to pay tax on this in the US. Does anyone know how this would work? If we have to pay and them's the rules, fair enough I guess... But - said relative would be spinning in his grave to know that his hard earned money was paying US taxes when he'd never even been there. What would happen if we just didn't declare? Would anyone ever know? Would it be safer to keep the funds in a relative's account until we moved back?

As I said upthread, a green card is only a blessing if you're from a country that is significantly worse off than the US. For most people from Western and Northern Europe, their home country offers much more.

It's actually crazy that the US can impose rules that affect how people who are also citizens of other countries live.

I disagree. A country can impose rules on its citizens. The alternative is not to allow dual citizenship. You say that you are imposing a burden on your child, but having the possibility to choose can be an asset depending on his situation in a couple of decades.

I expatriated several years ago and am very glad I did. It was expensive, but worth it for the peace of mind (and would have cost more not to do it in the long run).

I think it is an absolute time-bomb for anyone who is a US citizen and trying to fly beneath the radar. They are actively looking for people now, and my understanding is that if you are 'caught' then there are much more draconian penalties and processes than if you voluntarily comply.

I had an extremely good US tax accountant based in London who steered me through the process, so if anyone needs one you can PM me and I will give you their name.

When I was having my panic yesterday I looked up the US inheritance tax laws (estate tax). I believe that they tax the estate rather than the beneficiaries and so they cannot tax an inheritance coming from outside the US unless the deceased is a US person. I'd double check that though.

I'm panicking less today as I've found out that you're exempt from paying US taxes as a US person abroad if you earn less than about $95,000 a year although they could still fine me $10,000 for not filing. I've decided to just send the blasted thing to the embassy and hope I hear no more about it.

Stromba the $95,000 is only excluded from earned income, it wouldn't include CGT if you've sold a house (even if it was your main residence) interest, govt benefits like child benefit etc.
I think you only get the exemption if you file the return and do the correct paperwork too.

Nolim - I didn't explain what I meant too clearly. I suppose I just find it bizarre that the US can demand details of finances abroad, affect whether or not people can open bank accounts in their 'other' home country and so on. We have lived and worked all over the world but have only ever had the US need to be listed on bank accounts opened in the UK for my son. Imagine if every country demanded the same - it'd be chaos!

Expatriators - can those of you who are in the midst of doing this / have done this let me know how long it took to get your appointment at the Embassy? I've got my streamlined offshore delinquent taxes / FBARs in process, and now need to get the loss of citizenship forms done.
Spanner in the works is now a scheduled business trip to the States in October. I have no current US passport and it looks like quite tight timing. Also - if I did get an appointment in time, is the expatriation effective immediately? ie would I be free to travel to the US on a UK passport immediately after the appointment / swearing the oath? do they give you a stamped form at the appointment?

Likelihood of getting through to the embassy to find this stuff out - NIL. Plenty of consultant who'll fill in very simple forms for me at vast cost and will tell me for a fee though... not prepared to stretch to that with the $2500 fee though!

london.usembassy.gov/cons_new/acs/passports/renunciation.html

this suggests it's a month to get the appt after submitting all your docs and if straightforward date of expatriation is the same as date of oath

there is an email address so you can probably ask questions via that

I'm expatriating, I have an appointment in September with the guy who saw my husband through his expatriation.

It was essentially the prospect of a US capital gains tax on our London house that finalised the decision for me. I feel pretty sad about it, but I'm not going to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to keep it.

Does anyone know what the capital gains formula for houses is?

thank you! I've been round that website in circles and not found that particular page (and I once lived on a really lovely road called Eldon Road, so there's clearly a spiritual link with Eldon Ave ;-))

Goodbye - are you speaking to tax people or someone to handle the actual expatriation? On the capital gains calculation, bear in mind that there are a lot of allowances and carry back /forward that gets applied (though you say "London property" so it could be a substantial gain). I'm not yet clear whether my interest payments on an ex-US mortgage will be taken into account, but the forms I filled in did ask for them, also for childcare expenses even though the children in question are not US citizens (their education costs are not however taken into account as they are not US citizens)

Jane my taxes are sorted because of my husband's expatriation, I am up to date on FBARS etc.

I'm seeing an attorney who handles the expatriation, I think he went with my husband to the embassy if I recall correctly.

I understand there are allowances e.g. renovations (although how I'd prove that at this point makes me dizzy - that was 6 years ago) and I'd be liable for only half, but - we bought the house in 2006, it's at least doubled in value. My citizenship is simply not worth that kind of money to me.

bear in mind that there's also the expatriation tax on global personal wealth in excess of $2m. By the time you factor in a London house that's doubled in value, you're well on your way with that too. Good luck... I'm doing the expatriation part on my own, with help from a colleague who did his last year - he felt that he'd spent a lot of money on that (he did go to a flash city law firm for some reason) which wasn't necessary

Jesus is the US the new Cypress? This must be new - I don't remember my husband paying a wealth tax when he exp'd, three or so years ago. Quite right that just a London house will put you over that.

I just googled this and can't find a percent!!! I did find this:

Under the new law, any individual who had a net worth of $2 million or an average income tax liability of $139,000 for the five previous years[9] who renounces his or her citizenship is automatically assumed to have done so for tax avoidance reasons and is subject to additional taxes.

That makes it really easy for me to leave. How bloody punitive is that? I am merely opting out to being a US citizen - that hardly makes me a tax avoider. I'm STILL SUBJECT TO UK TAXES!!!!

I'm riding along on my MIL's tab for this attorney, her situation is more complex than mine.

I only just found out about FBARs this past year, too! I had to pay someone to retroactively file them for the previous years through the "amnesty" program. How was I supposed to know about this?

Anyway, I won't be giving up my US citizenship because I have family I visit regularly in the US. If you renounce your citizenship, you'll need a visa to get back into the US, and who knows how easy that will be to obtain at that point?

So I will continue to pay someone to take care of everything all year. You are right: it is too complicated to do on my own, and the repercussions for messing up because I am not aware of new requirements are terrifying.

I thought you could still travel under the visa waiver scheme provided you have an EU passport

My husband expatriated about 3 years ago, I arranged his ESTA and we've visited about 3x. It's all been fine, no more difficult than when we visited with him as a citizen.