To Consider Giving up US Citizenship?

[NotFunBeingAnAmericanInLondon]

Posting here for traffic.

Desperate to talk to other US citizens settled in Britain who doubt they will be returning to the US for personal reasons.

Am I the only one who's been here so long I didn't notice the FBAR thing? I don't file FATCAs, but I am never sure. What are we supposed to do if our British born, dual US citizen kids have CTFs? I have a SIPP with mutual funds in it, my accountants tell me not to even bother mentioning it now?! Apparently this is a time bomb for later.

Social Security and State Pension are supposed to be reciprocal, but I cannot get any information from anyone.

I used to file my own 1040 forms, but now that there are so many forms to file with the threat of prison if I mess up that I am truly cowed and pay someone else £400 a year to file for me. And I am a housewife with no income!

The state department has just raised the cost of expatriation from $450 to $2500 which worries me even more.

I wonder, should I just give up my citizenship now and make life much easier?It's a lot of worry and stress to carry around for emotional/nostaligic reasons.

I became compliant on my US tax forms and FBARS earlier this year. There is very good info on the US Embassy in London website. See Streamlined Compliance Procedure. I did all the forms myself and don't need to pay any tax. It was a lot of work and I made mistakes on every one, but the International Tax IRS people in Philadelphia were helpful. The forms aren't difficult if you just have a job and earn less than $96,0000. It's about your income not your husband's.

Really you need to have done 5 years of tax returns in order to renounce without hassle unless you were born a dual national and still live in the country of the other citizenship. I don't qualify for that exemption. I am thinking of renouncing next year after I do this year's forms. My husband and children are British and my children do not qualify for US citizenship and I don't want to move to the US. I am rather perturbed by the increase in fees for renouncing, which only came in a few weeks ago.

What the future tax thing? Yeah, it's a fairly recent form to scoop up a set amount of "exit tax" from the wealthy and provide a clean exit.

Doesn't it work with minors that are dual that they have a period of 6 months at age 16/18 that they can renounce without the hassle?

I heard of someone who realised they would be liable to fatca reporting because they were us born even though they never had a us passport. When they went to sort it out they were told they could renounce but they had to sort out all those pesky prior year tax returns they hadn't been filing....

Not sure if that was an urban myth though!

Good arvo, did I read your post correctly that if you are a dual national living in the country of your other nationality you can renounce without 5 years of tax returns, or have I misunderstood?

IRS Form 8854 has everything anyone needs to know. Bugger of a form to complete!

Why don't your kids qualify for us citizenship goodarvo? I thought it went via a parent or born on American soil?

My DH is pretty upset about it. He has never earned enough in any given year to be liable for US tax, it's just the paperwork, but re. the children - as said upthread, we were given a really hard time at immigration when we were visiting the US before DD1 got her US passport. The (humourless) immigration guard said she had to have a US passport because she was a US citizen regardless, and I drew myself up to my full height and coldly informed him that she is NOT American, she is IRISH. So we were taken off to another room to wait forEVER with a lot of very anxious immigrants to cool our heels before being told we could enter the country, but DD1 had to have a US passport next time.

Fabulassie But even without the passport, they're still technically US citizens. The irony of it was that member's of DH's family thought that I was marrying HIM to get US citizenship! Hah! No, thank you...

It's such a pain with children! For them to enter the US with a US parent they are supposed to either travel on a US passport or with an official "No Claim to US citizenship" form (where the US born parent doesn't meet the residency requirements to pass on US citizenship).

I've had the full range of immigration officials from, "It's a good thing you got them US passports otherwise we'd be sending them back" (how friendly) to "Oh, they have US citizenship! That's cool!" (Seriously - "cool" He clearly missed a day of training. )

GoodArvo... My dh has always ignored this issue? He has a US mum, UK Dad, born in US. He moved here when he was 11 and holds both passports, always has. He is convinced that he doesn't need to because he has never paid tax in the us and he is a dual citizen, not an expat. Its his understanding that he'll be fine. He said "if I was an expat I would just renounce".

Personally I'm worried that one day the draconian " land of the free" will get in touch with a large bill, or threats of a fine.

Sorry, should be clear, "for them to enter the US full stop" - I just meant that children entering with a US parent would be flagged to a US immigration official to need a US passport or no claim form.

Honeysuckle Legally he should be filing but unless he has ties to the US (e.g. In my case I was highlighted to the IRS through my mother's death in the US) or has ever told a financial company that he was born in the US/is a US person, he'll likely never be highlighted to the IRS.

FATCA makes it more complicated with his place of birth so you might want to look at your holdings and see if you are over the threshold at any companies.

Now I'm worried. If we travel to US with kids, dh thinks he would get hassled for using his UK passport, but sounds like our kids would not be entering unless they had a us passport! I have no intention of letting the us government know they exist, let alone getting a passport. Dh does not want to move back there, ever... What a hassle for nothing!

My husband is a US citizen and looked into it but the cost of the exit tax outweighed the cost of filing

They have him by the balls!

Taz he has family there and his mother (uk resident) files returns every year. I own the house, and he earns less than £30k a year. I can't imagine he is over any thresholds.... God its so stressful! He doesn't earn in America, why is it their business?! Scary stuff!

Does his UK passport have his country of birth on it? Mine only has "Boston" which has been very convenient for me.

Legally your DH does need to enter the US on his US passport, but if he hasn't to date, it's unlikely he is in their system. The same goes for your DC. It's all about being legal or playing the odds and chancing it.

Taz if he starts filing now, would he be penalised for not doing so in the past? He's only been working for a few years.

He's looked it up, apparently our kids won't qualify for us citizenship so thank f for that!

This is so complicated. Taz my children have no claim to US citizenship. We had no problems passing through immigration in the states as a family with me travelling on my US passport and dh, dd and ds on UK passports. I've never heard of this "no claim" form and can't find it on a google search.

I'm seriously considering renouncing when I've five years taxes done.

FATCA is about savings/investments at individual institutions. If you don't hold more than the equivalent of approx $50k at any one institution and if your DH's country of birth is not flagged as the US, it is unlikely you would be affected by FATCA. What you need to watch is taking out any future financial products because many will now ask you to specify whether you are a US person and then you need to weigh up saying yes or no and the possible consequences.

Honeysuckle There is no penalty for dong a mass back filing assuming you don't owe any tax (which it doesn't sound as though you would). If you have more than $10k in total savings you also need to file FBARs. In theory there are penalties for not filing these but in practice if you say you were unaware of them they won't fine you

He uses his US passport when he travelling with his family, so they do know about him. I think we'll just avoid travelling there if we can avoid it, although we'd like to go eventually. I would presume banks know that he is dual, but he says he usually writes British unless there is space for more than one.

Tarka The US Embassy in London has information on the No Claim form. If I get a minute I'll try to find the link.

Thanks so much tax, you are very helpful! I think I will talk to mil and see what she does (I.e. what the forms are like) and get her thoughts on it too. Dh is of the opinion that as he doesn't file in this country, he damn well isn't going to in a country he doesn't live in. (He's not self employed, he does pay UK tax.)

I shouldn't make suggestions that are not legal, but I was here for over 20 years without filing and if my mother hadn't died in America I'd probably still not be filing...

taz, did you file your 8854 yourself, or did you have professional help?