to think "if you like it, put a ring on it" is a revolting expression?

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Women are using it about themselves!

WTF is going on?

I rather doubt there has ever been a marriage proposal without initial indications or exploratory discussions instigated by one or both parties along the way!

the choice lies purely with the man, and all the woman gets to do is accept or whine.

Exactly. That combined with the nonsensical 'it' is why its a pathetic thing to say.

I much prefer 'crazy in love.'

No woman I know would want to ask a man who can't be arsed to ask. The truth is there's no self respect in that!

Whyever not?

Looking at the lyrics of RESPECT, I'm not sure about that either!

Oh dear. Scared to google the full lyric now.

I rather doubt there has ever been a marriage proposal without initial indications or exploratory discussions instigated by one or both parties along the way!

Of course it happens. Some people are just blindly romantic/ impetuous/ reckless/ brave/ certain.

For the same reason that a man would probably not ask a woman who had made it clear they didn't want to marry!

There is something about 'put a ring on it' that really grates on me too.

Of all the symbols of marriage, they chose that one: I hear: 'you shouldha' branded me'. Or 'you shouldha got me a nice shiny rock'

Sorry olga, I'm not sure I understand. You think a man not proposing is the same as a woman refusing a proposal?

This all sounds very C19th

No I'm saying it's exactly the same for a woman or a man! Why would anyone propose if they strongly suspect they might be turned down - you have to be confident your proposal will be accepted!

Surely the adult thing to do is discuss what you both want from life first?

And no, I got married in 1997 not 1897 thanks very much.

So did you have a "Crazy in Love" moment and make an unexpected proposal to your DH? Sweep him off his feet?

Do tell, it all sounds very romantic and "modern".

No he's a crazy impetuous romantic and proposed within six months.

But if I wanted to marry someone, I'd ask them. Why not?

You have to have the sensible conversation at some point anyway, either before proposal or afterwards. Or at the outset of cohabitation. I do not understand the intense passivity being advocated.

I'm not too keen on it either.
Mind you I don't like 'it' to describe anything that is living; woman, man, baby, dog it just seems a bit ehh.

"You've got a lovely baby."
"Thanks. Come and take a look at this new car my husband has."
"OK, where should I put it?"
"Ah, just put her in the pram and she can come out with us."

Grinds my gears.

It's all very well to declare that having never been in that position.

I don't see it as passivity. I don't think that having an expectation that a partner should show some commitment and character as being passive!

To me the lyrics of the song are primarily to do with signifying exclusivity and monogamy. Marriage is simply the way that most societies have established a settled, traditional representation of that mutual agreement between a couple.

Economic inequality can't be ignored either.

Anyway, there has to be more to it than female passivity and male proactivity, otherwise how do gay female couples ever tie the knot?

You really just wrote that?

What's your point?

It's all very well to declare that having never been in that position.

You asked me about my husband, not my entire relationship history. But why would anyone stay with anyone who wasn't committed to the same future plans, whatever that entailled (marriage, children, relocation, religion, house purchase...). It doesn't make sense. Why hang around being strung along? Just leave.

I don't see it as passivity. I don't think that having an expectation that a partner should show some commitment and character as being passive!

But it IS passive if it is always men who are expected to propose to women and women wait.

To me the lyrics of the song are primarily to do with signifying exclusivity and monogamy. Marriage is simply the way that most societies have established a settled, traditional representation of that mutual agreement between a couple.

But my point/OP isn't about the song. The phrase has developed a life independent of the song. In every example I've seen recently, the women have monogamy and cohabitation and sometimes a child or two. They are using the phrase about marriage specifically.

In a very old fashioned way, despite living very modern lives, but the language is demeaning in 21st century style. Quite the jumble.

I completely agree with the "why hang around" point. I never did either.
I really don't see that the phrase itself has achieved the kind of status you think - certainly not amongst my 13yo DD, her friends or their older sisters for whom Beyonce is a bit dated.

Any more than the Spice Girls "girl power" revolution had any lasting effect!

I don't suppose women in that position particularly choose to wait passively.

I've read many threads here over the years on the kind of situation you describe, many of which predated that song.

In most cases the women have made it absolutely clear that they want marriage and have proposed. But their partners don't want it.

Those who don't have children are free to go. For those with children, it's not so easy. Many feel they have no choice but to compromise.