punishing the whole class, AIBU to make a fuss?

[georgeousgeorge]

So, some bright spark in DS1's class (he's 8 / y4) decided to pour water all over the teachers chair, she sat on it. 35 boys are "in the frame" and have been shouted at by the HOY.

Unless someone confesses they all get a half hour detention.....with the view being that the HOY assumed they all knew about it and that someone is going to dob in the culprit.... However none of them seems to know who did it, my DS certainly doesn't have a clue.

This is teaching my very good DS precisely nothing, he's polite, helpful, good reports, and has never been in trouble.

However, I do support the school, it is generally good.

However for the first time I'm turning into THAT mum - AIBU to make a fuss?

This happens in my ds' class all the time. The culprits don't admit they did it, everybody gets punished and my ds says the naughty children enjoy their "power" to get everybody punished.

I don't know what the alternative might be, but punishing the whole group for one member's misbehaving is not fair.

Seriously Pastor, you'd tip up at school and announce you were removing your DC from lessons half an hour early to make up for the detention? I can see that whole class punishments are unfair on the ones who weren't involved but surely that would be so undermining of the teacher in the eyes of your DC, wouldn't that totally trash any relationship you had with the person charged with educating your DC?

Pastor, or anybody really, how would you deal with this situation?

I agree whole class detentions are unfair, but I cannot think of any other way to deal with it. Other than not sanctioning it which IMO would be worse.

This kind of stuff is why I could never, ever in a billion years have been a teacher - kudos and for all of you who are.

Similar thing happened to me - someone in the class did something that was regarded as a Bad Thing (they didn't drink their morning milk - that'll out my age!) but as the bottles weren't labelled nobody knew who.

The teacher said as nobody would own up the entire class would be kept in at play times until the person confessed.

Nobody would confess, nobody wanted to lose playtime, so we (group of kids) had a chat and decided that as my mum was a teacher at the same school and until then I'd been one of the "good" ones, I'd get into least trouble so I lied and said it was me.

Nothing more was said, no further punishment issued and we were allowed out to play.

So I think group punishments like this are very lazy, targeting the wrong people and likely to have little in the way of effect on the perpetrator.

How can you be sure that if someone owns up, they've not been pressured into it by their friends to be today's scapegoat, regardless of whether they were involved or not?

pastor

As far as I can see you are the only one who has used the term "running riot"

When, during the day, did this happen?
Was it during the school day?
Whilst children were present?
How come most children knew nothing of it until the next day?

But it really isn't funny at all.

The teacher has to do something about it - why should she be made a fool of in her workplace?

If she lets it go, the culprit gets away with it and the rest of the class will see her as an easy touch too.

I really would not be happy to be the subject of a nasty practical joke in my workplace and to have to walk around the workplace in a wet skirt and underwear for the rest of the day.

Thank, Pastor, that makes sense.

Thank s, even.

Who is going to monitor the classroom whilst it is break time?

Or should children be locked out of the school building, meaning they cannot go to the toilet?

Or should staff not be allowed 10 minutes to go to the toilet, have a quick coffee, do some last minute prep, quickly phone a parent about something that has come up, speak to another teacher about xyz, etc?

Oh my goodness Hic did you go to my school? I remember not drinking my milk and someone else owning up. It confused me totally, but I kept quiet......until now!!

I do agree that generally whole class punishments are not good and should not be used, and are generally frowned upon.

I've never given one - if nothing else, why should I be punished and miss my break because of a child's behaviour?

I've never known a primary school have an after school detention either though - it would normally be 5/10 minutes off break time.

Punishing the whole class can have seriously negative consequences for cildren with additional needs. DS has AS and has been extremely upset and made anxious because of such measures.

Some parents on here who are saying they wouldn't allow their child to attend a detention seem to have the impression that they can do this. Parents legally have no say in whether their child gets a detention or not.

It does sound like a tricky situation. If the detention doesn't go ahead then the perpetrator gets off scott free and the lesson learned is that if you can hide your misbehaviour in a crowd, you'll get away with it. What I would probably do is get the group together without warning, give them a slip of paper and ask them in silence to write down who they thought had done it. This usually turns up a culprit.

Possibly, Positive :) it hasn't scarred me much and there were no repercussions! Just highlights how ineffective a whole group detention would be.

I must be the only person on this thread who actually thinks that someone sitting on a wet chair is funny :) and yes I'd laugh if someone did it to me at work too. DH is being disapproving, apparently that sort of thing went on at his school and Wasn't Funny At All. chortle

Just to be clear, I don't find it funny per se.... but more of a situation where no one died, no one was bullied, punched, injured.

No but the teacher was humiliated in front of a class of 35 boys. You have admitted you had a chuckle. You're charming. Are you sure your son had no part in this.

Trust me a single boy would not do this without the knowledge of some other boys, maybe all. I have no problem with a group punishment of 30 minutes detention. It is better, in my opinion, that they are all punished rather than the deed go completely unpunished because the perpetrator is a coward.

pastor

I wouldn't call it "running riot", I agree with most of your suggestions But I wouldn't "suck it up" and I suspect that this has been escalated by including the HoY.

My ds & dd too Laundry. It can be really detrimental to their attitude on behaviour (why bother to behave if you get punished anyway) & really upsets their black & white sense of fairness.

I may not legally have a say but I would kick up an almighty stink. I'd like to see them trying to 'detain' my child in such a circumstance.

I can always legally remove them.

That's it exactly, Picture - DS was outraged at the injustice of it and lost respect for the teacher who gave the detention.