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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

punishing the whole class, AIBU to make a fuss?

305 replies

georgeousgeorge · 27/09/2014 16:51

So, some bright spark in DS1's class (he's 8 / y4) decided to pour water all over the teachers chair, she sat on it. 35 boys are "in the frame" and have been shouted at by the HOY.

Unless someone confesses they all get a half hour detention.....with the view being that the HOY assumed they all knew about it and that someone is going to dob in the culprit.... However none of them seems to know who did it, my DS certainly doesn't have a clue.

This is teaching my very good DS precisely nothing, he's polite, helpful, good reports, and has never been in trouble.

However, I do support the school, it is generally good.

However for the first time I'm turning into THAT mum - AIBU to make a fuss?

OP posts:

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 27/09/2014 17:37

People are focusing on the detention not being the end of the world; of course it isn't, but 'life's not fair' and 'it's not a big deal' are rubbish reasons for not challenging this. Yes, it used to be done 'back in t'day', doesn't mean it's right. It's a lazy punishment method. Kids don't just pressure the culprit to own up, it paints a big target bullseye on them.

I've also been in a class where the bullies decided to tell the teachers that their favourite target had done it, when really she hadn't, getting her into trouble and facilitating bullying.

WineWineWine · 27/09/2014 17:38

i did have a silent giggle at the thought of the teacher with a wet bum I have to admit

In what way is that funny?
Did your DS find it funny to? I wonder if the whole class thought it was funny.
A detention for them all seems perfectly reasonable. It teaches them that things like this are NOT funny and not acceptable, even if you are just standing by and watching. People do know who did it. Pressure needs to be put on anyone who knows, to tell. 'Pranksters' need to know, that other people will not just stand by and ignore them when they do horrible things to other people. Group responsibility is good.

SugarPlump · 27/09/2014 17:38

Clam I think most people are actually saying they would expect their child to be disablined in this way!

clam · 27/09/2014 17:52

On this thread, yes. But as a general rule, no.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/09/2014 17:54

moomin, there is no suggestion on this thread that bullying has played any part in this incident.

The OP admits she found the idea of a teacher in wet clothes funny. I think she should be grateful her DS is only getting a short detention. Her DS may well have been the culprit.

longest · 27/09/2014 17:55

Group punishment is NOT good practice and would be completely unacceptable at my school.

inabranstonpickle · 27/09/2014 17:58

I once had a kid do this only it was chewing gum, not water - it's horrible.

You just can't let stuff like this go (although my school did!) So humiliating.

SuburbanRhonda · 27/09/2014 18:03

longest, so how would this incident be dealt with in your school?

Genuinely interested.

pudcat · 27/09/2014 18:03

For those who say this punishment is wrong, what acceptable alternative can you come up with?

schokolade · 27/09/2014 18:07

Oh come on, a wet bum isn't the end of the world is it. Not hilarious either, but mildly amusing.

It is ridiculous to claim it was likely to be the OPs DA because she thought it was passingly amusing.

cloutiedumpling · 27/09/2014 18:09

This sort of punishment was used frequently when I was at Primary School. I was a well behaved kid and all the punishments taught me was to resent the kids who had misbehaved and the teacher who had punished me even though I had been innocent. Some kids liked the control that the group punishments gave them over everyone else in the class. No one would tell the teacher who had been naughty as we were all far more afraid of the kids who had been naughty than the teacher.

ExpiredUserName · 27/09/2014 18:10

I don't like group punishments. I've had teachers tell me that they were sorry they had to punish my kids even though they knew they were not involved in the misdemeanour. it really irritated me. My kids were always very quiet and well behaved in class and I think it unfair to punish them because of other kids behaviour. It teaches them nothing
I didn't use to say anything but I did sympathise with my kids. They used to get secretly angry with the perpetrators but it's unrealistic to think they could have done anything to change their behaviour.

When DS2 was about 16 his class was given an hours class detention because some of the class were talking. He got up and asked the teacher if she realised that he wasn't involved. When she agreed he told her he wouldn't stay as she was contravening the disciplinary procedures. He is very polite and speaks quietly - I'm sure she must have been a bit shocked. He then went to the head of year to explain. Nothing more was ever said about it. My son has to have been one of the quietest and most obedient teens out there. I was when he told me what he had done but I was also glad he stuck up for himself. I think the teacher knew she was in the wrong as she was always pleasant enough to him afterwards.

Btw, just in case anyone thinks my DC sound too good to be true; rest assured they were, ahem, perfectly normal at home

Rokenswife · 27/09/2014 18:11

I'm a teacher and I have done something similar.....a child in my class drew all over a table in a permanent marker. I told the class that we had until the end of the day for the culprit to come and confess otherwise our golden time on Friday would be cancelled.
It worked and it was the last person we suspected.

Other than do this, what can we teachers do? We can't just let it slide but how are we supposed to find out who is misbehaving?

SuburbanRhonda · 27/09/2014 18:14

Oh come on, a wet bum isn't the end of the world is it. Not hilarious either, but mildly amusing.

Amongst a group of drunken adults on a night out, maybe. In a classroom where children are being prepared for life in the real world, not so much.

It's irrelevant how happy you might feel to have this done to you in your workplace. What's important is how the school shows to the children that such behaviour is unacceptable, and how they support the teacher.

OwlCapone · 27/09/2014 18:15

i did have a silent giggle at the thought of the teacher with a wet bum I have to admit...

How funny would you have found it if it was your child who had sat in the wet chair?

FixItUpChappie · 27/09/2014 18:18

Actually, I think it's okay. The social pressure of having everyone annoyed with the culprit may benefit the whole class in the future.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 27/09/2014 18:21

No group punishments are not fair o.p why should a kid suffer for another's misgivings, but the school has to find out who the culprit is for all you know it could have been your little angel who seemingly has never done anything wrong.

Original poster

georgeousgeorge · 27/09/2014 18:22

just to be clear, I don't find it funny per se.... but more of a situation where no one died, no one was bullied, punched, injured.

It wasn't nice, nor respectful.

HOWEVER, shouting at a class of 8yo's, and the HOY can shout.... punishing the whole class when maybe a deep breath and a more considered attitude would have been more appropriate....

DS BTW didn't find it funny, he was more interested in discussing suspects with me, who the "chief suspects" are.... who is normally "naughty"...

OP posts:

hackmum · 27/09/2014 18:25

Odd that so many people are saying it's fair, when it's so obviously not. Imagine a scenario at work - a customer complains that a member of staff has been rude but nobody knows who it is. Management decide to dock everyone's wages if no-one admits to having done it.

It doesn't really matter that the punishment itself is small - it's the principle of fairness that counts. If even children who are always well-behaved get punished, what is this teaching them?

Original poster

georgeousgeorge · 27/09/2014 18:26

and to answer some others of you, most of them (apart from the culprit obv) knew anything about it until the following day... so there was no general giggling or anything of that nature.

OP posts:

ElephantsNeverForgive · 27/09/2014 18:27

I'd let it go, the teacher has just confirmed to the children that they are an idiot (even very small DCs know whole class punishments are wrong and old fashioned).

Original poster

georgeousgeorge · 27/09/2014 18:32

I think as well, maybe if the whole class had been laughing or somesuch, you would assume someone would spill the beans....but rather it seams that only the culprit is aware...

Interesting hackmum, I did say something similar to DS, if someone stole something would you put 35 people in prison...

It's just a bit of a problem threat - it's one you don't really want to have to carry out

OP posts:

Outdooooors · 27/09/2014 18:37

YANBU, that's not fair!

longest · 27/09/2014 18:37

Well it's never come up at school but I imagine the whole class would be spoken to by the HOD, then potentially individual children spoken to to try to find the culprit.

I can't remember an incident when the culprit didn't eventually come forward or was grassed up...

SuburbanRhonda · 27/09/2014 18:44

OP, what would a "more considered attitude" entail, from the point of view of an alternative to a whole class punishment?

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