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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be hesitating to take action?

104 replies

ThePerUnaBomber · 25/09/2014 17:20

My work colleague (same role, we even share an office) has, I think, had a bit of a crush on me for a while. Lots of long stares at me in meetings, always tries to create scenarios where he and I would be alone, sits opposite me at every opportunity (meetings, social events, lunchtime) and makes borderline inappropriate comments (you should come and live with me).

I am happily in a long term relationship, we live together with our kids from previous relationships and I think I give off nothing but unflirtatious vibes towards my office mate. Nonetheless, he persists.

Yesterday I helped him work out a piece of software - firstly over the phone - to which his reaction was "thank you thank you I love you I love you I love you". Odd in itself as we are very senior civil servants working in a very serious govt department and we do not have that sort of working relationship - it's a very formal place. Then, he came to find me later (as I sit in with different colleagues to work on a new project for a day a week) to thank me again.

Note: I am NOT the only person who knows how the software works and he had been allocated another colleague (who knows it far better than I do) to assist him - she was in the office and could have helped him - but he chose to ask me.

I quickly ran through it again for him - he was standing behind me - and once done, he said "can I hug you?" I said "no!", then "NO!" again and for a third time "NO!" but he put his arm across my chest and squeezed, with his head against my neck. I was shaking with rage as I said "NEVER do that again." My colleagues were shocked at what had just happened and I immediately went up to HR to seek advice.

I was told that he has form for this, and that I should stay away from him - especially where alcohol might be present - and not be on my own with him. REALLY??? He shouldn't be told to control himself - it's on ME to ensure it doesn't happen again??!!

Then I got an email from him, apologising for the hug, saying he had been having a bad day and that he's not DLT. My reaction: regardless of what sort of day you are having, if a colleague says "no" to physical contact, you respect that. Added to the very creepy behaviour I have endured for almost 2 years from him (none of which admissible), I want to deal with this but not sure how.

Should I reply to his email, copying in HR, saying that he should respect my personal and professional boundaries? Or should I force HR to deal with it as clearly similar has happened before? I discovered today that he has been taking one of our most junior (we are the most senior) female members of staff out for cosy pub lunches - she told me herself as we were having lunch together and she said how different it was to just grab a wrap and have a chat rather than have to sit in a pub for an hour or more. So I'm now concerned that he may be starting on her and taking advantage of her inability to say no to one of the "bosses".

What would you all do if you were me?

OP posts:
Original poster
ThePerUnaBomber · 27/09/2014 08:07

Sorry for double post - I had filed the email away as didn't want it sitting in my inbox - I had to forward it to my manager and guess what the subject line is? 'Thank you'. Sick.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 27/09/2014 08:18

Git!

Well done for reporting him. I hope matters progress swiftly next week and that the HR person gets a rocket up their arse.

mummytowillow · 27/09/2014 08:38

Take it down the formal route. A 'former' colleague of mine was like this, he would strike conversations up with new younger female colleagues to see of they were in a relationship.

If they were single he would bombard them with slimy emails. He was overheard making an extremely derogatory remark about a female and a investigation into his emails found hundreds to many females, all unwanted as they didn't reply. Yet he persisted!

He was fired for gross misconducted. He genuinely didn't think he'd done anything wrong.

If you let it go, he will think he can carry on. It's not up to you to 'stay' away from him either.

Itsfab · 27/09/2014 17:40

I reported what happened to me today

sorry to hijack but I wanted to tell someone after my earlier post

YonicScrewdriver · 27/09/2014 17:44

Well done!

Itsfab · 27/09/2014 18:14

Not really. Instantly dismissed. Won't tell joint owner as they are off sick. I wish I had said nothing as feel worse now. DH wants me to take the children elsewhere. He is never seeing them or me and I ignore him so don't want to change. DH doesn't want to give him any more money. We are there a lot with the kids as they have problems.

Oh Yonic, Sorry I assumed your comment was to me Blush.

YonicScrewdriver · 27/09/2014 18:15

It was but I'm sorry you've had such crappy consequences to your bravery.

Original poster
ThePerUnaBomber · 27/09/2014 20:27

Sorry, itsfab. Is there a professional body for osteopaths that you can take this to?

OP posts:
Itsfab · 27/09/2014 21:44

I need to have a serious think about what to do as my child is being treated there by someone perfectly safe who knows my DC and understands their difficulties. We would both find it very hard to see someone else. I have to go back next week so I will see what is happening then. I just want to forget it now and really wish I hadn't said anything. There is nothing I can do, nothing that can be done and tbh I have had worse done to me so need to try and forget it and

No, I am not going to think about it any more.

Original poster
ThePerUnaBomber · 02/10/2014 19:11

Update: boss had an hour-long meeting with creepy mcgroperson today. Subtext is CMcG is claiming to be depressed and that's why he did it. Funny - DP has depression and has never felt the need to self medicate by grabbing his female colleagues. Neither have my two other colleagues with bi-polar disorder.

So, apparently I have two choices, one of which I have to decide on tomorrow at 10. Choice 1: take it to grievance and keep pushing it (I don't know where it stops with that) or choice 2: allow boss to put formal note on CMcG's file and keep him under observation for 24 months. Or boss can take it up the chain without my agreement, which isn't a choice I can make but which might be something he does if I choose 2.

I don't know what to do. Taken in isolation, out of the context of the low level harassment over the past year and more and HR's warning about him having form and what he is up to with the intern, I think option 2. But he's got form, he's been badgering me and staring at me for over a year and he's been driving an intern off to cost country pub lunches for absolutely no reason. So I think 1 on that basis, to show him and the wider organisation that this sort of shit needs to be taken seriously and dealt with seriously.

The 10-year case of bullying (by one person, of about 15 others) played out with the bully finally being warned after 10 years, signed off ill and then allowed back to do it again - upon which another grievance was opened and the bully resigned rather than be dismissed.

So you can see that I have not much faith in either option. CMcG is probably going to get signed off ill now anyway. Advice, wise vipers? Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
Itsfab · 02/10/2014 19:15

do the heaviest sanction choice would be my advice

Chippednailvarnish · 02/10/2014 19:18

Choice one for me, but I'm mindful that I don't have to share an office with him.

Did you have any input from your union and what happened regarding HR's crap response?

KatieKaye · 02/10/2014 19:23

Take it to grievance.
There is no way you should have been told about a colleagues medical issues. That is confidential and telling you about this is in itself a disciplinary matter. And regardless of these your Department should not be using this information as an "excuse" for his behaviour. No harassment is ever acceptable. None.
Seriously, join the appropriate union. They will be there to support you. because the messages you have been getting from your manager and from HR are terrible.
You have made a formal complaint and so far there has been a "chat" with him and then you're supposed to make the decision about what happens next? No. that is so wrong. Once you have made the complaint it should be investigated and if it is upheld, then any disciplinary procedures are up to HR.
Read the civil service code of conduct, your department's policies on harassment, respect and on grievance procedures. then ask yourself if they are being implemented.
Again - join a union. Thousands of civil servants went on long periods of strike action to ensure unions would not be banned, so take advantage of the stand made by them and exercise your right. You are denying yourself so much help and support. If necessary the union will bring in full-time officers to deal with this issue, as well as giving you free legal advice.

YonicScrewdriver · 02/10/2014 19:26

"You have made a formal complaint and so far there has been a "chat" with him and then you're supposed to make the decision about what happens next? No. that is so wrong. Once you have made the complaint it should be investigated and if it is upheld, then any disciplinary procedures are up to HR."

This.

YonicScrewdriver · 02/10/2014 19:27

If they believe he's depressed, it's up to them to consult with OH about how to support him; that's separate.

RandomMess · 02/10/2014 19:33

If someone was depressed and that caused them to stab someone - it wouldn't be brushed under the carpet would it?

Original poster
ThePerUnaBomber · 02/10/2014 19:37

The union advised that the HR person issue is separate. I've informed the relevant channel manager and actually I'm hopeful she will get the training she desperately needs. My manager and I will meet formally at 10 - we had a quick phone chat late this afternoon. He will appoint an investigating officer on Monday if I want to keep going - and he did say last week that if CMcG has a nervous breakdown as a result, that's his own bloody fault. My instinct is to keep going - the intern today told me that she has been whistled at by another colleague so many times that she has stopped wearing skirts. It's just so maddening that there is no instinct to report it - or framework that is encouraging women to speak up and preventing men from doing these things. I'm going to take it to grievance - I should be protected as should my colleagues.

OP posts:
RJnomore · 02/10/2014 19:38

They really, shouldn't be putting this decision back on you.

There should be a procedure written down and now you have stated you want a formal complaint, it should be followed.

Choose neither option, say "I made it clear I wanted this to be treated as a formal complaint, therefore please follow that procedure". It's do unfair to put it back to you.

quietbatperson · 02/10/2014 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TeaForTara · 02/10/2014 21:24

It's difficult to do but choice 1 is the best one. If he "has form" then that means he has harrassed / groped other women in the past. Presumably they were dissuaded from going down the formal route, leaving him free to do this to you now. If this is dealt with informally again then he is free to repeat the behaviour in future. If HR know he "had form" then they have failed to protect you and they should be sanctioned for that.

If you had no witnesses it would be much more difficult for you (although his email is an admission anyway) but as you can call witnesses to the fact that you said no repeatedly and he still touched you, it's a cut and dried case.

His excuse of "depression" is rubbish. No way does depression have that effect on someone. But you don't need to call him a liar. Just say that if he had a physical illness which would put other colleagues at risk (e.g. Ebola) then he would be expected to get signed off sick and not come to work. If he has a mental illness which adversely affects colleagues then the same rules apply.

wanttosqueezeyou · 02/10/2014 22:11

I've never heard of depression causing someone to assault their colleagues. But if it does, perhaps he shouldn't be at work.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 02/10/2014 22:16

Agree it's a weak and cowardly thing to do, making you choose what happens next. I bet they presented it as a positive thing as well. Grrrr.

pluCaChange · 03/10/2014 07:36

In pushing the responsibility back onto the organisation, be sure to stress the aggravating factor of your being forced to share an office with him.

If you have any IM or email conversation even/especially from your personsl email, about anything he's done, use those. They are time-stamped, show longebity and persistence in his behsvior and, if in the form of text/personal email, show his behabiour has affected you out of work (and if work email/IM, he has affected your productivity IN work).

Sorry you've got this hassle.

LurkingHusband · 03/10/2014 09:05

Seems your employers are treating what is criminal assault very lightly ...

UncleT · 03/10/2014 09:38

Yup. Reject any notion of 'options' and insist that complaint and disciplinary procedures are followed.

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