To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

Happy has no opinion on power chairs. They are for "proper" disabled people you know. God forbid Happy would be disablist.

Tinkly, you say they were walking towards you. If that is the case, then yes, it wouldn't have hurt them to move out of the way.

I am talking about the scooterists that tut and beep at anybody that happens to be in front of them and suddenly 'stops' to have a look at something.

To me that is just plain rude.

Tinkly you are completely ignoring the people with disabilities who are at risk of injury when they aren't the ones using mobility scooters. Some of those people have posted on this thread. It isn't a case of able-bodied people -v- disabled people, and it's pretty dishonest of you to continually make out as though it is.

Well said.

Tess, what do we do though, wait until a mobility scooter driver injures someone seriously then decide they need extra coaching? Or do we set an easy "mock circuit" up, ask them to do a short simple test, short simple eye test, then if they pass that let them continue. The problem with your theory is, at this point, with no regulations, we only find out who needs that extra coaching after they have an accident.

As was evidenced on the BBC program, some people mastered the local authority mock/test circuit in mere minutes. Others were still struggling after weeks. The only way to know if an individual falls in to the former or the latter category is to test them.

I have never ever advocated a minimum number of hours training thing. That would be silly as people master skills at vastly differing tempos. I would like to see something more like, go on to the mock circuit, complete it successfully in 5 or 10 minutes, you're good to go. However if you miss red lights, or reverse into inanimate objects, go over both sides of the road when you turn, run into dummy members of the public, then you should have to return and master the mock circuit before you're allowed into busy public places with your mobility scooter.

I am genuinely pleased to see you acknowledge that disabled people are individuals and learn things at different rates Happy, because that is precisely the point we are all trying to get across.

Why the hell should I, a perfectly competent person with a clean driving licence for the last 20 years, have to receive lessons and training and be assessed to drive what is basically a dodgem?

It is insulting and belittling. Disability is not some one size fits all thing. We are people.

I'll try again. This test you describe for power chairs too?

And whilst I'm at it if we are doing it for scooters can we have one for cyclists too?

no one has mentioned banning mobility scooters. Just regulating them to ensure those who drive them meet basic safety levels. Like being able to see a red light or a person or a wall. Just basic things like that.

Exactly. God forbid a toddler should get killed by one - just because that toddler was inconsiderate enough to 'stop suddenly' or 'refused to 'get out of the way'. Or another disabled person (not all disabilities are visible and require a scooter), could be run over.

Consideration needs to be shown on ALL sides.

But I didn't say anything about tutting or beeping at them at them One. So why would you just assume I did? Why would you just assume I was entitled?

Do you automatically assume all disabled people are entitled?

Happy - did you miss the bit of my first post, where I said I agree there needs to be regulations, such as a minimum standard of what a scooter user should be instructed on? (Not minimum hours, a minimum standard). It doesn't need to be a formal test, just an assessment when trying out scooters, which in effect was what RAFA did with my aunt?

For the record, one of my aunt's ex-WRAF friends did struggle a bit when RAFA first came out to her, so they continued working with her until they felt she could take formal ownership of the scooter.

That's how it should work, it should be reactive to individuals, not made harder for everyone.

"Why the hell should I, a perfectly competent person with a clean driving licence for the last 20 years, have to receive lessons and training and be assessed to drive what is basically a dodgem?"

Read what I write before going off on a rant about something I have never said. If you can complete an easy test circuit in 5 minutes, then you don't need lessons. Why these tests are needed? Because there are people like my neighbour, with clean driving licenses for around 50 years, whose eyesight has deteriorated, whose reflexes have deteriorated, whose coordination and concentration have deteriorated, meaning, while he was never a risk on the road in his car, he IS a risk now in his mobility scooter, to himself and to the general public.

I find your dodgem comment very unfair to those who do have trouble mastering them, like the lady with MS on the BBC documentary, who spent a lot of money on hers to leave it sitting rotting in her garden as she couldn't master it.

Why are you making it ALL about you, Tinkly?

People are talking about inconsiderate scooter users. I have been sworn at, 'tutted' at and beeped at by scooter users.
My son had his foot run over by one, but that's another story.

So I am telling about MY experiences.
And as you are quick to point out ''we are all human beings''.
We all deserve to be treated with respect when we're out and about on the pavements.
So stop makeing it all about you.

It's almost as if you're determined to see yourself as a victim. a label you are putting on yourself.
Bizzare.

Power chairs...?

Waits...

Thing is One, when I am out on my scooter I am constantly doing emergency stops and moving very warily about unsupervised toddlers; as you say, God forbid I would hurt one.

And I am under absolutely under no illusion that if one ran in front of me, on the pavement, and was hurt, then I would get the blame. But this set of values would not apply to a car driver, who would be deemed blameless in those circumstances.

Tinkly,
I think what people are trying to say, is that, just as there are irresponislbe, dangerous car drivers out there, there are also dangerous, ireesponsible scooter users, and because these vehicles are big, heavy and can move at speed, people driving them should be capable of doing so safely.

Hence, there should be some sort of tuition - if only to make sure the person can see properly and has quick enough reactions to stop in time. Do they have the strength to be able to apply the brakes properly as well?
Basic things really.

The safety of everybody has to be taken into account.

I am making it about me One, because you belittled my experiences at the seaside and called me entitled.

And you are very rude to say I am making myself a victim.

Happy - did you miss the bit of my first post, where I said I agree there needs to be regulations, such as a minimum standard of what a scooter user should be instructed on? (Not minimum hours, a minimum standard). It doesn't need to be a formal test, just an assessment when trying out scooters, which in effect was what RAFA did with my aunt?

No I didn't miss it. I just thought you would realise that not all people selling mobility scooters are as ethical as the RAF person was with your aunt.

My neighbour was sold something that they did spend an hour "teaching" him about. But they didn't test his eyes. He is so visually impaired that his driving license was revoked, he shouldn't be in traffic or on pavements with anything motorised, for his own sake as well as others, even his 50 yr old children agree with that. The mob scooter company didn't take him out in public, they instructed him on how it works in an empty carpark where their shop/offices are, so they had no idea of the obstacles and difficulties he faces when in REAL situations. But, like I said earlier, give him an empty road or pavement and he can ride along fine, as they did show him how it worked.

If we leave it up to individual sales people to say who is competent enough to safely operate a mobility scooter we are asking for problems. That's like saying, scrap the driving test and let the car salesman in the Ford garage decide if the 17 yr old can safely drive this new Ford. We don't trust car salesmen to decide who can safely drive, that's why we have an official test. And for the same reason, I don't think we should trust scooter salesman to say who can safely operate mobility scooters. It has to be a body independent from those selling the things, otherwise there is a glaring conflict of interests. Safety versus sales targets.

*I've just nearly run over a man in a powered wheelchair. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these wheelchairs. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?*

I think the replies would be very different...

I am making it about me One, because you belittled my experiences at the seaside and called me entitled.

There you go again. Nobody is belittling you.

Nobody has said anything about belittling. You have come up with the word yourself.

Lurking You are obviously lying about your wife being considerate and competent. Because Happy once saw a TV program where someone with MS struggled to operate hers. Therefore they must be fiendishly difficult and take hours of training. After which we still all drive like fools anyway.

grow up and stop trying to stir up another poster up to get at me.

I have stated umpteen that numerous people master skills at vastly differing tempos. And what does considerate and competent have to do with a woman on the BBC who couldn't master driving a mobility scooter? I never commented on her personality (she was lovely, though that is not the discussion at hand). I commented on the fact she said she found mobility scooters too difficult to master, that was her own words, her own experience, her own choice to let the thing rot in her garden. But you don't want to hear that do you? No, because YOU find them "easy as dodgems" to drive, then we should all be silenced from saying otherwise. Even the poor woman with MS who invested her money and efforts on one and found it too difficult.

I am making it about me One, because you belittled my experiences at the seaside and called me entitled.

Really?

If posters are commenting about people 'in general, I don't automatically substitue the word general to me

Tinkly you seem to be doing a great job of speaking as though you are championing all disabled people, while ignoring the people with disabilities who have posted on this thread but who - amazingly enough - don't agree with everything you say.

I wonder why that is?

HappyScot, you're wasting your time.

Are people really comparing driving tests to driving motorised scooters and expecting to be taken seriously?!