To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

I can't see that as being very common, Scot. Anyway, the gov.uk website says

'6. Use by non-disabled people
If you are aren’t disabled, you can only drive a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair if you’re:

-demonstrating the vehicle before it’s sold
-training a disabled user
-taking the vehicle to or from maintenance or repair'

So has maybe been addressed?

swim I'm presuming it would have to be a criminal offence otherwise it wouldn't be enforceable. Similar to 'dangerous driving'

happy I don't know him or what his families like, but you have mentioned him several times and something somewhere is obviously going wrong for him.

Again, mumu, doesn't need to be either/or. It's possible to regulate the industry and make sure each driver is able to safely control their vehicle, just as we do with other motorised vehicles.

archery but it's not the same as any other industry because you are dealing with vulnerable people who could be placed in very difficult situations if it's regulated with no support in place.

As for criminal charges - I would suggest the investigation of someone who has caused a death or an injury would be a great deal lengthier and more distressing for the driver (assuming that they survived the accident themselves) than a sanction for driving a vehicle they could not properly be in control of.

Archery

We only have evidence (and I'm not even sure that was detailed) of one death to a pedestrian involving a scooter. The other 3 were to users. Proper support and training is what is needed with alternatives offered to those who are not deemed safe.

Yes, it is the same, mumu. I know of people who rely on their cars to get around - drive then use regular (non-motorised, self-propelled) wheelchairs when they are at home or work or wherever. If they couldn't drive, they'd be stuffed.

(And I know what it's like to be housebound. I was housebound for the best part of a year about a decade ago, and it was one of the most miserable times of my life. Still wouldn't have justified me putting other people in danger, though.)

Oh, well, if we're just talking serious injury, then go ahead!

And mumu, we've had people ON THIS THREAD talk about injury resulting in death of a poster's family member. It's really dismissive and disrespectful of you to minimise this.

annie You were talking about deaths so I was responding to that.

Also (correct me if in wrong) a poster said that her MIL had had a cracked pelvis from an incident involving a scooter and died several years later. Which is very sad and I'm sorry for the poster this happened to but it wasn't a direct death.

With regards to car drivers not all are vulnerable. All scooter users are, by their very nature that they are using them.
And there are things in place to to support disabled people who can't drive. I used 'Access To Work' taxi's when I couldn't drive.
The people we are talking about, are so disabled or infirm that they are unable to control a basic scooter. They need our support and if we bring in a test that is pass or fail without any alternatives then we are potentially condemning people to a life of zero independence.

I can't really understand why anyone is arguing against this?

annie

I'm confused where am I justifying death and injuries?!

mumu - that was a cluster of deaths in one year in Essex, not the totality of deaths related to disability scooters.

We are arguing about this because you appear to think one person's right to drive a scooter, however unsafely they do so, trumps another person's right to walk in relative safety along the pavement.

swim but they are the only ones we have any data for. Dept. Transport says 0 deaths. And the Essex report said 4 deaths, 3 of which were users.

Which for me adds to the point of why aren't we supporting these vulnerable people?

You are justifying it all the time, mumu, by saying the (real and founded) risk of death and injury has to come second to the unfettered right to drive a scooter.

annie

Please tell me where I have said that???

Which for me adds to the point of why aren't we supporting these vulnerable people?

The one poster who has detailed how a vulnerable scooter user they know is supported was then insulted by you for treating him "like a child".

From the beginning I have advocated safe scootering. My gripes on this thread have been about the tone in which some people have discussed this.
We are now discussing regulation and I'm saying if you regulate you MUST offer support alongside.

And I was questioning the word 'chaperone,' as someone who works with vulnerable adults this is not a word I was use.

the whole point is.... we have no statistics for death and serious injury

because there is no regulation

anecdotal evidence (provided in the house of commons) suggests the figures are FAR higher than the ones we know of now

Why are we repeating the same things!
If you want regulation then push for it with a petition. But do you not agree that regulation without a care bill in place would be awful for many vulnerable people?

A simple pass/fail test with no net is not acceptable.

And I was questioning the word 'chaperone,' as someone who works with vulnerable adults this is not a word I was use

its maybe not the word you would use. The whole concept of chaperoning is obviously silly to you. The idea, and the word, came about when my neighbour's adult son approached a well known and very reputable charity who advocate on behalf of people like my old neighbour to get their help and expertise with the issue of his dad and his danger on the mobility scooter. If you have an issue with their terms and wording. Take it up with them. I think you are just you now doing with me what you did with that biggles woman the other morning???

Biggles or Boggles I think she was called, came on this thread and told us how her MIL got both hips broken after being run over by a drunken mobility scooter user. The poster was obviously very distressed and referred to mobility scooters, not their drivers as “them”. And your "tone" was adorable when you berated that poster for using the word “them” to describe inanimate objects. If I remember right you actually said you got distressed at her use of the word them when it was obvious to anyone reading when she referred to “him” she was referring to man who broke her MIL’s hips. When she referred to “them” she was referring to mobility scooters

anything to muddy the waters with you mumu.

but i understand why.

it focuses the discussion away from the real issue, the issue the OP asked "should mobility scooters be regulated".

If you want regulation then push for it with a petition

what, like you do when you want push bikes regulated?

happy

Anything to muddy the waters?! I'm going to leave you to your lovely little argument with yourself because I'm not actually arguing against your point.

For the final time. I'm not against safe scootering. I'm not even against regulation (especially for the industry) but there needs to be a plan of support in place if people do fail the test set by regulation.
Support for disabled people is reducing by the month.
If you introduce regulation without proper support you may as well (for some people) put them in to an institution because their independence will be zero.

And I'm done.

The one poster who has detailed how a vulnerable scooter user they know is supported was then insulted by you for treating him "like a child".

Annie, thank you SO much.

I only did what I was asked to do by my neighbour and his adult children. His adult children only took the steps that a very well known and reputable charity advised they take. Not only do I get insulted for helping my neighbour as being akin to treating him like a child, I now get insulted for using the wrong word too.

(chaperone. who would have known that was a no-no word. Not that I actually think it is or a charity who advocates on behalf of the elderly and disabled wouldn't use it. it just any old reason to muddy the waters and get a dig in and yet another attempt to make this thread able-bodied versus disabled)