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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

786 replies

JellyDiamond · 22/09/2014 12:14

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 23/09/2014 14:11

And I mean the thread in general not a specific person

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 14:15

I recently took my disabled scooter on holiday for the first time, with my DP and a couple of friends. Our friends, who haven't been with me when I've had my scooter before were quite shocked at how many people behave.

Things like crossing my path and stopping, forcing me to do an emergency stop and then just standing there oblivious while I reverse to give myself enough room to go safely around them.

Next time you are in a busy area with scooters, why not spend a little time observing how the scooters are driven: I can guarantee the majority of them will be stopping and starting and generally giving way constantly to utterly oblivious pedestrians.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 14:21

Fanjo, I think this thread is basically just symptomatic of how it has become okay to denigrate disabled people. If we try to put our point of view across we are "entitled" or "have a chip" on our shoulder or told to "get a grip".

It is utterly depressing.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 23/09/2014 14:25

Yes..and of the fact people lose sight of the fact there are real people typing.

And berate people scathingly for "vocally flouncing" when really they are getting upset and leaving then being drawn bck and upset again.

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 14:29

fanjo I couldn't agree more.

No one has answered my earlier question on whether they feel the same about powered wheelchairs. They can be just as heavy and do some speed.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/09/2014 14:33

Tinkly you are completely ignoring the people with disabilities who are at risk of injury when they aren't the ones using mobility scooters. Some of those people have posted on this thread. It isn't a case of able-bodied people -v- disabled people, and it's pretty dishonest of you to continually make out as though it is.

TessOfTheFurbyvilles · 23/09/2014 14:34

My aunt has a mobility scooter, she is a former WRAF officer, so her scooter is provided for her by the Royal Air Force Association (RAFA). They pay all costs including the insurance.

When she first put a request in for the scooter, RAFA took into consideration not only her medical need for a scooter, but also her medical ability to operate it. A RAFA officer also came out with a scooter similar to the one my aunt would be provided with, and spent an hour and a half with her, first showing her how to operate it, and then watching her operate it. The officer then spent time going over the "rules of the road". I'd say the whole appointment was a little over two hours. (I was there, as my aunt wanted someone with her).

This two hours was more than adequate, it's not a car, it doesn't require hours and hours of lessons or a test. You switch it on, select the speed (maximum 8mph), and operate the lever to move forward or back. And my aunt's scooter is one of the most "top of the range" models, so the smaller ones are even simpler than that.

Three weeks later, the scooter was delivered by a local mobility shop, and the man who delivered it then spent another hour going through the workings of the actual scooter my aunt received (which was almost identical to the one she "tried out", but the man still went through it all again).

And you know what?

Despite the fact my aunt did have "training" (if that's what you want to call it) before she became a scooter user, and she has insurance, and also that when on the pavement she sticks to the 4mph or less, she is still treated APPALLINGLY by others.

She has experienced:

  • Pedestrians who verbally abuse her (when they have actually PASSED her on foot, because she goes so slow on the pavement).

  • Car and van drivers, who if they got held up for a few moments (because a vehicle is coming the other way), then proceed to pass her and either beep their horns, hurl obscenities at her, or make other despicable gestures at her. Sometimes they do all three.

  • Taunts by groups of youths, including an incident when a couple of them decided to mock her by running "slow motion" alongside her, which they soon regretted as by chance I was driving through her village at that very moment to get to our GP surgery. They were soon on the receiving end of my wrath, little shit bags.

I don't for one moment disagree that perhaps there is a need for some regulations, perhaps a minimum standard that someone must have received thorough instruction on how to operate the scooter, and perhaps compulsory insurance (especially if it's used on the road). But operating a scooter DOES NOT require passing a test, no fucking way.

However, I think some comments on this thread have demonstrated the attitudes that people can have towards the elderly and disabled, and I know people who bemoan mobility scooter users simply for being an "inconvenience" (when in reality, if you are "stuck" behind one, it's usually only for a few seconds at most). My aunt's experiences only support that.

Every single mobility scooter user out there, could have had full "training" and be insured, but there will still be fucking ignorant wankers who will say they shouldn't be on the pavements OR the roads, such is the selfish nature of our society today I'm afraid.

HappyScotProudBrit · 23/09/2014 14:35

Maybe thats a good time to lay off someone a bit.

lay off someone a bit? what by just pretending that mobility scooters don't cause deaths and serious injuries, just in case someone on mumsnet does a flounce?

i don't think so.

I find the safety of the general public, and the safety of mobility scooter drivers far more important than any one person's individual feelings.

Is there anyone on this thread who can say how easy mobility scooters actually are to manouevre?

i would say they were very easy for ME to manoeuvre. Someone up thread said they were as easy as dodgems to drive. However, for many people driving them, that is not the case. See the post earlier about the young woman who got her mobility scooter while the BBC documentary crew were following her. She couldn't get to grips with it at all. Couldn't even get it out of her garden, and had so much trouble with it while out and about, she stopped using it. My old neighbour can manoeouvre his ok-ish if he is alone on a path with few or no obstacles. His problems are more to do with eyesight, he can't see well at all so has many knocks with it, misses road signs etc. Lack of coordination. As soon as he looks to the left, he steers to the left, if he adjusts his scarf or something while driving he is all over the road or pavement. And he has problems reacting on time (reflexes) so a red light can throw him right off as he can't react quick enough.

I also see people here mentioning "complicated maneouvres" that I personally see more as lack of manners on the part of the able-bodied, but not actual complicated things to do. Complicated though is relative to the person being asked to do it.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 14:36

Ah but Mamukanoney powered wheelchairs are obviously for "real" disabled people aren't they? Not scooter users who are obviously frauding it because they are fat and lazy. Actually, if they walked about a bit more they'd probably slim down a bit and feel a lot better.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 23/09/2014 14:37

You can talk about the subject in general and still show kindness and consideration to someone's feelings.

Well that is the kind thing to do.

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 14:43

My feelings exactly tinkly

For everyone's information powered chairs can do up to 6mph. If I could get a power chair in my boot and wheelchair services didn't have such stupid rules on who qualifies for funding for one, then I'd have one.
At least then I wouldn't feel I had to justify why I use it.
I'd be 'proper' disabled, innit Grin

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 14:44

You know Happy if you really have such massive concerns about the safety of the general public, why don't you campaign to ban cars? There is no comparison with the number of deaths and serious injuries.

Still, scooters are a much easier target aren't they?

HappyScotProudBrit · 23/09/2014 14:49

it's not a car, it doesn't require hours and hours of lessons or a test. You switch it on, select the speed (maximum 8mph), and operate the lever to move forward or back. And my aunt's scooter is one of the most "top of the range" models, so the smaller ones are even simpler than that.

so you're saying that the young woman with (I think it was) MS was just lying to the BBC documentary film crew when she said it was too complicated and difficult for her? When she said she had trouble maneuvering it in busy places and in and out if her garden, was that just for camera? I am sorry but because someone can master something in an hour or two hours does not mean everyone can. This was shown on the BBC documentary in the special training area for mobility scooters built and operated by the local authority. One person could step on and be driving perfectly after half an hour. Others struggled after many sessions spread over weeks. It is unfair and untrue to imply that one size fits all and everyone is good to go with an hours tuition.

LurkingHusband · 23/09/2014 14:49

BreconBeBuggered

Is there anyone on this thread who can say how easy mobility scooters actually are to manouevre? Simplicity of operation doesn't necessarily imply great flexibility in the face of obstacles, living or inanimate. Frankly I dread relying on one for my personal independence in the future.

We are straying into a piece of string territory here. Some of the fold up 3 wheel ones can be quite nimble. As a rule the 4-wheel ones don't have a great turning circle.

A lot of ignorance here, sadly.

As with anything intended for the less able, scooter prices are exorbitant.

My wife uses one, and I have been around them and their users for years, and have never once seen any incident as described upthread. Certainly my wife is considerate and careful. Unlike the selfish cars which block the dropped kerbs which are a lifeline to wheelchair/scooter/pushchairs. Or the cars who park on the pavement, blocking the way, and either requiring a 400 metre (i.e. quarter mile) detour. Or in one case simply requiring you don't go out, since there was no accessible detour.

All the shopmobility (a lifeline) schemes we have used over the years have required a proficiency test before they will give you membership. It may be perfunctory, but it's better than nothing, and should weed out the truly incapable. If anyone here sees an incident involving a shopmobility scooter (they are pretty distinct usually) then before posting on Mumsnet, let the staff know, so they can re-test, or check.

Personally we'd have no problem with a system of basic competence assessment and compulsory insurance. However, it would raise the question about cycles.

I was amused to see some back of the fag packet meaningless science trying to make a point about energy transfer. Of course without reference to the surface areas involved you can't really say anything. Except to note that a cyclist weighing 70Kg doing 25 km/h , is going to pack an awful lot of punch which will (and has killed).

On a final note, it seems that "shared space" is the new centuries equivalent of tower blocks in the 60s. So expect to see a lot more places where cars, pedestrians, cyclists and skateboarders (who appear to have got off lightly in this thread so far) appearing. As a starter for ten, I give you the new Longbridge retail park in Brum, which has shared space. Car drivers note, in a shared space nobody has right of way.

For some reason I can't fathom, this has become a very emotive subject. 500+ posts about mobility scooters ! Piss off. Clearly mobility scooters are being used as a proxy for much deeper - and darker - feelings. I've been online for longer than I care to imagine, and have noticed that in any online gathering large enough, something never quite squares with life as experienced.

I met my wife 20 years ago, as a pen pal. She immediately told me she used a wheelchair, and it dawned on me then that I rarely saw people in wheelchairs. Maybe once, twice a year. Why was that ? It was because, as other posters here have pointed out, we had a nasty tendency to lock the freakishly disabled out of sight. Don't deny it, as a society, we did. We took an almost perverse pleasure in ensuring modern life was as difficult for those less able, as it could be. How many disabled toilets did you see 25 years ago ? For me the sight of wheelchairs, scooters, buggies around is a sign that we have progressed. But how much of a cosmetic progression that is remains to be seen.

HappyScotProudBrit · 23/09/2014 14:51

You know Happy if you really have such massive concerns about the safety of the general public, why don't you campaign to ban cars? There is no comparison with the number of deaths and serious injuries.Still, scooters are a much easier target aren't they?

no one has mentioned banning mobility scooters. Just regulating them to ensure those who drive them meet basic safety levels. Like being able to see a red light or a person or a wall. Just basic things like that.

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 14:56

Great post lurking

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 14:58

happy

What are your thoughts on power chairs?

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 14:58

Happy Why are you so aggressive? Tess is just relating her own personal experience. Because this does not coincide with something you saw on the telly, does not mean it is not the case.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 15:05

Happy Oh you mean regulating scooters the same as cars?

Well fat lot of good regulation does there.

There will always be accidents Happy. With all the regulation in the world. People on this thread are telling you about all the regulation already in place. Are you not listening? Not all scooter accidents are caused by blind, demented, incompetent people. Plenty are caused by able bodied people not keeping their eyes open.

And yes, I am entitled enough to think that able bodied people should keep their eyes open.

TessOfTheFurbyvilles · 23/09/2014 15:06

HappyScotProudBrit - you miss my point.

My point is, I've seen people on here seem to think every scooter user should take lessons and a test, which is ludicrous.

If someone needs additional help and training, then fine, but it shouldn't be enforced on ALL scooter users just because some need a bit of extra help.

That's my point.

Furthermore, learner drivers don't have to put a minimum number of hours under their belt, so you can't seriously think that mobility scooter users should have to do minimum hours of "training" when drivers don't. That would be fucking laughable!!

NB: Worth mentioning though, I live in the US now, where young drivers DO have do a minimum number of hours before getting their full license. That actually DOES make sense to me!

HappyScotProudBrit · 23/09/2014 15:07

Happy, Why are you so aggressive? Tess is just relating her own personal experience. Because this does not coincide with something you saw on the telly, does not mean it is not the case.

Oh i see. It is aggressive now to point out (politely I might add) that different people master skills at different rates. What one person masters in an hour, some peopel might never get the hang of. That isn't aggression. That is just common sense.

Yet it's ok for you to (quoting annie here) to "completely ignore the people with disabilities who are at risk of injury when they aren't the ones using mobility scooters. Some of those people have posted on this thread. It isn't a case of able-bodied people -v- disabled people, and it's pretty dishonest of you to continually make out as though it is"

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 15:09

happy Are you able to able to answer my question on power chairs?

mumukahoney · 23/09/2014 15:10

Typos but you know what I meant Wink

TinklyLittleLaugh · 23/09/2014 15:12

Lurking You are obviously lying about your wife being considerate and competent.

Because Happy once saw a TV program where someone with MS struggled to operate hers. Therefore they must be fiendishly difficult and take hours of training. After which we still all drive like fools anyway.Wink

TessOfTheFurbyvilles · 23/09/2014 15:14

If you make it too difficult and expensive for elderly and disabled people to access scooters, it will put many of them off, but I suspect for some this would be a result.

Putting elderly and disabled people off getting scooters, means less of them on the road, and they can then go about their business without having to get "stuck" behind them for a few seconds every now and then!

Wink