To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

If I was living in a rural area with no public transport, and needed a car to get to the shops, the doctors, my job, then I would have to pass a test to drive that car, and if I could not pass that test, then I too would be stuck inside. If I drove I would be dangerous, unqualified and without insurance. My being stuck would not be enough justification for the DVLA to say "nah, go ahead, drive anyway - it'll be fine".

Panic on the part of the driver was certainly what caused the accident in which a friend was squashed against some railings by a scooter. She said the elderly gentleman driving was hysterical and a passerby had to intervene to make him let go of the handlebars.

She was badly bruised but fortunately not seriously injured and didn't report the accident. She was far more concerned for the driver who was very upset.

But Jelly, scooter users do not pose a risk to your elderly father. That's part of the problem with this thread and the attitude displayed on it.

Saskia, and being struck by lightning would cause him even more severe injuries, but someone on here has posted that is more likely than being killed by a motability scooter.

I'm not trying to be flippant, I do sympathise with your FIL. But as I've said, big scooters are not supposed to be on the pavement anyway. Seriously, as a wobbly person myself, I worry a hell of a lot more about toddlers, dogs and fast moving teens than I do about scooters.

Bulbasaur WTAF are you on about? How is my child with Autism going to injure someone?

Oh, and I'm not sure my friend could be accused of "not making allowances" for the driver. She was standing at a bus stop, right next to the railing so as to not block the pavement and was hit from behind.

Tinkly - we have no control over lightening, we do have a degree of control over who operates heavy machinery. That's the framework we have to work in: the doable, not the Godlike.

Okay, shall I list all my toddler/dog/inconsiderate pedestrian incidents? Cos we'll be here all night, I can assure you.

Sure, if any of the toddlers and dogs weigh several hundred pounds and are motorised.

"Sure, if any of the toddlers and dogs weigh several hundred pounds and are motorised."

This ^

Yes Archery, and if you tried to prevent losing your licence you could argue extreme hardship / mitigating circumstances, although it'd be unlikely to work. Especially if there was alcohol involved- in my googling earlier there was at least one individual who was scootering under the influence. For that person to be allowed to hop back on their scooter the next day, no, I just don't see how anyone can say that that's in any way right.

It's incidents like mrsfumble describes which also suggest that the unreported accidents involving scooters could be much higher than we think. Regulation and testing is as much for the users' benefit as for other pedestrians'. I imagine that the man that struck fumbles' friend felt terrible, guilty, shocked and lost a horrible amount of confidence following that. If he'd been given adequate training, run through an emergency stop and had the reaction times required to operate the vehicle then it might not have happened.

Craic interesting stats again. I think this is all incidents involving mobility scooters, regardless of who was injured/any sense of fault. So these could be incidents where the scooter user was injured or killed by another vehicle.

I noticed that there were more deaths involving horse riders. Are there regulations for who is allowed to ride a horse?

I used to walk. I used to walk everywhere - quicker than buses, and driving/car ownership was too expensive. There were pedestrians who were a menace. Completely unaware of anything around them. I've seen people just walk out into the road and expect traffic to stop (it does).

What I have found since getting my scooter, is that there are people, most people, who are aware of what is going on around them, and people who simply aren't. You can beep your (pathetic) horn and they won't hear it. You can shout "excuse me" as loud as you can and they won't hear you. They can even look vaguely in your direction and not actually see you. How can I, in my massive heavy piece of machinery, not be seen? I can assure you it's possible.

I've not driven into anyone. I slow right down when there are people about, also dogs and children. Sometimes I just stop, because I know this person walking towards me is going to walk right into me and if I don't stop they'll get hurt and I'll be blamed - but for those people who do that, can I just say I can't go sideways.

So I quite often come home saying "Pedestrians, there should be a bloody test."

The other stats posted previously do not clarify whether the person at fault was a driver, pedestrian or other road user; they are comparable in that degree. However as I pointed out the latter ones are for England only, as opposed to the previous stats which were for Britain as a whole. The later ones also do not include minor injuries, which the previous ones did.

Horses are generally ridden in rural areas where national speed limit applies; you're going to get more fatalities there by the nature of the speeds involved and road conditions. That's very different to a pedestrianised urban centre or roads, where you're more likely to find scooters.

People don't see little children either, Jux. It's like they are in a world of their own. I lost count of the times where people have walked into ds when we've been out and sent him flying

So there isn't a test for riding a horse, even in those apparently more dangerous circumstances?

What about cycling? Did I miss a legally required test being introduced for that?

You are starting to look utterly obsessed with this one, solitary, scooter user and his destructive expeditions, Happy. If you go through life basing all your generalisations on the most extreme example, you must find things rather difficult.

Garlic, at least you didn’t swear at me this time. Well done!!

If you don’t like the example of the man I gave, here are a few others for you, compliments of Teenager’s earlier post.

April this year, a man died after making an error with a three point turn on the pier. His scooter landed in the ocean.September 2012, a male user died after he crashed his scooter through a window falling 12 feet. January this year, a male fell into the Thames on his scooter and died. August 2012, another user died falling off a cliff at beachy head. Coroner calls for laws to be changed after a man with serious eye problems bolted out in front of a car in 2013. May 2014, user goes into a lake in Swindon and dies. January 2011, pedestrian killed by a scooter user. October 2009, seriously injured 2 year old. The mum chased after the scooter screaming to stop because her child was under the wheels. 2009, lady in Isle of Wight knocked down and died. July 2014. Woman injured after being hit with a scooter in Cromer.

I want these things regulated, not just to safeguard pedestrians and road users, but to safeguard vulnerable people who don’t realise they are a risk to themselves (as well as others) when they drive these things.

But unsupervised toddlers and dogs have caused me black eyes and severe bruising, similar to that suffered by mrsfrumbles friend.

And while I may curse the incompetence of the individual, I am not demanding that the whole group be regulated, to compensate for the bad control of the few. Because I am not toddlerist, (I am not denying I may be a tad dogist).

I've said previously I don't want there to be a test, but I do want to see more instruction. But, to clarify, most horsey people have been riding for years. They're generally experienced and familiar with the roads and the animal. New riders would not be allowed out on the roads without an experienced rider with them, can't see any responsible horse or stable owner agreeing to that. Sure, someone could potentially buy a horse and just saunter out on country roads with no previous riding experience, but due to the cost of horses generally that's highly unlikely. Not the same with a scooter.

Incidentally I do support additional regulation and compulsory training for cyclists but that's not what we're discussing. I note you have no further comment on the stats linked to earlier.

Craic, with regards to the statistics you posted. Do you know if there is any obligation for the police or local authorities to collect statistics on RTA's involving mobility scooters? The reason I ask is, about 6 months or so back, the BBC broadcast a program about the growing issue of accidents involving mobility scooters, and I seem to recall, that while some of the stats that BBC aired were quite shocking, they said this was only the tip of the iceberg as there was currently no policy for the police or local councils to gather stats involving mobility scooters. Some police forces and councils did, some didn't. And what one council/police force viewed as "bad enough to report" the next council decided it wasn't.

Jux
I have very similar experiences to you on my scooter. I often have to simply stop otherwise people will walk into me. I think it is very unlikely that every single scooter accident is solely the fault of the driver.

Oh, Bulbasaur - you need to go and look up the definition of "straw man".

It's not a straw man. If we aren't going to let people with disabilities out of the house because they might injure someone, I don't see why we need to wring our hands over which disability gets allowances and which doesn't. If a person in a scooter is a danger, so is an autistic person having a melt down.

I fail to see the difference.

It's either ok to regulate "dangerous" disabilities or it isn't.

So which is it?

Bulbasaur WTAF are you on about? How is my child with Autism going to injure someone?

How is a person on a scooter going to injure someone? It's hardly fair to say physically disabled person should be contained indoors if they can't go out without possibly hurting someone, but a mentally disabled person shouldn't. Don't you think?

After all, unchecked autistic kids have been responsible for school shootings. In fact, aggression is right there in their melt downs. They should have to take a test and be regulated to make sure they're safe enough to be outside in public.

Offended?

Good.

You should be.

It's fucking ridiculous to keep a person confined to their home because they might be an inconvenience to someone else.

If you wouldn't lock up an autistic person because they had a melt down. Why do the same to a physically disabled person because they accidentally bumped into someone with a scooter?

In before "scooters cause more damage"... How much damage do you think a big 6ft guy having a melt down can cause? (Hint: Alot)

You guys are all basically saying that if a person can't be on a scooter they shouldn't have one. In affect you are saying they need to be confined indoors away from you.

Explain how that isn't disablist. Explain how that isn't cruel. Explain why it's ok to do to one type of disability but not another.

I'm waiting.

I think a legally required test for cyclists would be an excellent idea actually.
I'm keen to start cycling again, but nervous because I haven't done it since I was a child. I also feel at a disadvantage as a non-driver because
I can't predict how motorists around will behave. Unfortunately it seems that cycling proficiency instruction and testing for adults doesn't exist where I live and the general opinion is that I should just get on a bike and go whether I'm competent to or not!

Well I have looked them up at the DVLA (www.gov.uk/mobility-scooters-and-powered-wheelchairs-rules/overview), they do not look that scary to me. I think I could outrun a class 2 scooter, do I need a license for my feet. Also what road tax should I pay on my nob nailed boots ?

Now back to being serious the DVLA have stated that they are exempt from road tax, and do not need a license to operate.

Yes, you have just proved my original point that you don't need a car to function day to day. If you couldn't drive, someone else could drive your son. Not the same thing as regulating a scooter.

In that case a scooter user who can't use a scooter safely could also function by getting somebody to drive them and push them in a manual wheelchair. It would be as costly and difficult for them as it is for me if I couldn't drive safely. The inconvenience aspect is identical.