To think that mobility scooters are bloody dangerous and there should be more regulation of their use?

[JellyDiamond]

I've just nearly run over a man on a disability scooter. I was driving along at 30mph, when he pulled off the kerb right in front of me. He didn't look anyway but when he realised I was coming towards him he didn't seem to know how to stop it and carried on. Had I been going any faster I would have hit him, had another car been behind me they'd have crashed into me...

I appreciate elderly and disabled people need to get about, but many of them don't seem to know how to use these scooters. There's an old chap near me who uses and one and drives along in the middle of the road, holding up traffic and refusing to pull over to let anyone pass. I've nearly been run over myself by them on pavements, in shops, in supermarkets and I've heard of people who have actually been bit and injured by them.

Surely there should be some kind of course and test for users before allowing them lose on the public? Maybe even an assessment to see who actually needs them rather than just giving them out willy billy to any OAP over the age of 70 wants one?

Why need the training be pass/fail?

Could not a simple course of training, no exam, be incorporated in the price of a scooter?

I rather suspect this is why OP's so antsy Neither scooters nor children actually 'come out of nowhere', do they? Good drivers are aware of potential hazards at all times.

the last potential hazard I would be on the lookout for while sitting outside a costa or strabucks enjoying my coffee and muffin, is for a mobility scooter to crash into me and knock me to the ground and take out half the chairs and tables with him.

the last potential hazard I would imagine a marker stall owner to expect is a mobility scooter to crash in to his stall because the scooter driver didn't see it

and as aware as I am on motorways, and as aware as the motorway traffic cops are, the last thing anyone expects is to see a mobility scooter go down the motorway traveling in the wrong direction

driver awareness might stop death or serious injury in the motorway example, but driver awareness won't help one bit when a partially sighted mobility scooter driver mows into market stalls and dining areas.

Look, my car can do 140 mph. That doesn't mean I drive at 140mph. Similarly my scooter does a top speed of 4mph. It would be crazy to do this speed in a busy shopping cente, so I set the upper limit to 1 or 2 accordingly. And I have the lever to control the speed within this limit.

Scooters are not all careering around at 4mph, any more that cars are careering around at 140.

Of course, some cars do, and cause accidents. Do you all want more car driving regulation because of a few incompetent people?

In England last year (2013) there were 149 reported collisions involving mobility scooters. Twenty of these resulted in fatal or serious injury - link. We do not have the data for 'slight' injuries.

The previous figures provided above were for the whole of Great Britain. If these I've linked to are correct and we extrapolate this rise across the UK, then the number of accidents involving scooters is increasing at an alarming rate. Something needs to be done before there is a fatality, and calling people who do worry about this 'disablist' is, frankly, bloody worrying.

Tinkly - it's my FIL. And buggies, toddlers, etc. are not going injure him as irreparably as something the size and weight of a Lambretta.

Insurance is as much for the benefit of the owner as if they are liable and don't have insurance they have to pay themselves (if they have the money). Insurance simply pays on their behalf.

Just because they are for disabled people doesn't stop them being large, heavy and dangerous. Though pedestrians do get injured, the main casualties are the people who drive these scooters. So for everyone's benefit they should require some sort of licence to show capacity and ability.

YY Bilberry - I do feel sorry for this woman (DM linky).

There should be more regulation, to protect everyone including the user. Even Age concern support more regulation.

April this year, a man died after making an error with a three point turn on the pier. His scooter landed in the ocean.

September 2012, a male user died after he crashed his scooter through a window falling 12 feet,

January this year, a male fell into the Thames on his scooter and died.

August 2012, another user died falling off a cliff at beachy head.

Coroner calls for laws to be changed after a man with serious eye problems bolted out in front of a car in 2013.

May 2014, user goes into a lake in Swindon and dies.

January 2011, pedestrian killed by a scooter user.

October 2009, seriously injured 2 year old. The mum chased after the scooter screaming to stop because her child was under the wheels.

2009, lady in Isle of Wight knocked down and died.

July 2014. Woman injured after being hit with a scooter in Cromer.

This is just a few of the many, many news articles involving mobility scooters. Had there been proficiency testing in place, who knows how many of these tragedies would never have happened.

My son was nearly run over when he was about 2, and we were in the supermarket. He was picking some veg for me. Turned round to see the scooter almost touching him. I pulled my son out of the way, screaming at the driver to stop. He carried on.. He did this on a regular basis. Reverse without looking.

This is bullshit. No person, disabled or not, has a right to act in a manner that might cause another person - who may also be disabled - an injury. This remains true even when it may cause the first person severe difficulties. Saying this is not disablist.

You're right. We need to keep all those autistic kids at home unless they pass a social skills aptitude test. God knows how many people they've injured and property damage they've caused during a meltdown. After all, if there is a chance someone might get hurt, we should lock them up.

Saskia, but he is far, far more likely to be knocked over by something else.

You are starting to look utterly obsessed with this one, solitary, scooter user and his destructive expeditions, Happy.

If you go through life basing all your generalisations on the most extreme example, you must find things rather difficult.

Here's a slightly off-topic, but significant point about mobility scooter safety that somebody should be considering. Mobility scooters are not like cars in having the accelerator/brake controlled separately from the steering wheel. It's more like a back-to-front version of the braking system on a bike. The lever is pulled to accelerate and relaxed again to brake. There is no facility at all for emergency braking. Imagine driving a scooter along at a reasonable speed and seeing a hazard in front of you. Preparing for an impact or at least a sudden shock, you instinctively grip the handlebars. This speeds the scooter up. With only seconds to do anything, you might be too paralysed with shock to react quickly enough. Or perhaps you can't afford to let go because you're trying to haul the heavy handlebars around to steer past the hazard. It really can be a case or 'Do I steer or do I brake or do I just hold on for dear life?'.

It's madness to place this system in the hands of someone who perhaps has slow reaction times, who has been riding a bike all their life and is slow to unlearn those habits, or who has poor core stability and is relying on the handlebars for stability.

Regulations and training would be great but a few alterations in the design would make a difference. I would like to know how often these factors have been at play in serious accidents.

garlic must be the chip on tour shoulder causing that head tilt, eh Jelly?

I have no real opinion on whether scooter use needs more regulation. I do however object to the comparison of being struck by one to being run into by a child or a dog. Some of the larger models of scooter can weigh more than 150kg! And that's not counting the weight of the rider.

Do you really think being hit by an object of that weight, regardless of how fast it was traveling, would not be more likely to cause serious injury than having a toddler barge into your legs?

Tinkly - I understand you're feeling 'got at', but really, some regulation and training would be best for everyone,and insurance as the link TheCraicDealer posted shows, just because you don't have insurance doesn't mean you don't have to pay out if you hit someone, even by accident.

I have seen lots of people use these scooters safely, but like others on this thread, I've witnessed a few idiots driving them dangerously and have had to do an emergancy stop once (thankfully with no one behind me to smash in the back of my car) when one pulled out on to the road in front of me with little care to look for a space. I don't think all mobilty scooter drivers are dangerous, but some (a minority) clearly are, a way to weed out the the dangerous ones and stop them before they hurt someone else, or a way to stop them driving the scooters if they do hurt someone, can only be a good thing.

oh and regardless of how much you need a car or isolated without it, if you hit someone with a car by driving dangerously, even if they are fine after that, you will have your licence taken off you and you won't be allowed to drive. As far as I can see, if you hit someone with a mobility scooter, there is no way to stop you driving it again the following day, no matter how badly hurt the other person was. That can't be right.

Even Age concern support more regulation.

Age Concern supports vastly more one-on-one help. I'm not sure whether you'd noticed, but the days when the public would fund a driver, chair-pusher and shopper for people who can't do their own are long gone. Charities for people with disabilities, quite rightly, want that back alongside help to become as independent as possible. The independence part has to come from mobility devices, like it or not.

Tinkly it doesn't matter if he's more likely to be knocked down by something else, the something else is unlikely to cause him such severe injuries.

Do you not agree that it is usually considered a good idea for people who are in charge of large, heavy pieces of machinery to be expected to be able to use it safely?

I agree the design of scooters is crap, but on mine you push the lever to accelerate, and release pressure to brake. So if I fell off, for instance, the scooter would just stop.

There is no facility at all for emergency braking.

Didn't know that! I wonder why?

Oh, Bulbasaur - you need to go and look up the definition of "straw man".

I cant beleive you think that there should be no scooter tests because some people wont be able to pass the test, and what happens to them then?!

They don't get to drive a scooter, that's what happens. Which is sad, and much trouble for them and their family. But i can't follow your logic that we should not to winnow them out in the interest of public safety, because that is somehow unfair to them.

Oh, that's interesting, Tinkly - like a water scooter, then? Had to use that a few times - it's always struck me as a great safety feature :)

The steering does sound very badly designed - I can see how in a panic someone could do the wrong thing. It should be looked at to make something more intuitive.

They don't get to drive a scooter, that's what happens. Which is sad, and much trouble for them and their family. But i can't follow your logic that we should not to winnow them out

Winnow them out???!!

You realise you've just said "They'll have to stay indoors, then. Tough."

The guy Happy's obsessed with should be given an ASBO or whatever sanction's appropriate for the things he does.

People who get hit by scooters because they weren't making enough allowances, or have to do emergency stops because they weren't observant, should handle the consequences. Everyone's responsible, not just people with disabilities.