To ask all Scottish MNers to join in and work together?

[SantanaLopez]

No gloating.
No blaming.

Just appreciation for a huge turnout and a peaceful process.

Scone yes, agreed - do you have anything in particular that you would like for Scotland?

eg, SP will have the power to vary income tax (in fact they already do)

If this is passed, what should we spend that income on?

I remember at the election before last when I was so hoping Blair would get voted out (forlorn sigh) and my pen hovering over the Conservative box. I just couldn't bring myself to do it!

Agree re SNP even if I was grudgingly accepting that NS was rather good and it is always good to see a woman succeed in politics. Homework is required.

Who is this man with his wooden spoon on BBC 24 talking right now? Talk about stirring! I have despised the media during this.

Will the Barnett formular stand as it is or be recalculated do you think?

Sapphiremoon I think that's very hard to say - it'll surely depend on what extent of new powers are agreed for Scotland as to what is appropriate.

just talking to one of DP's friends on the phone. He mentioned George Square and I replied that they were just a bunch of thugs. His response, "naw, it's being going on for 300 years. I just wish they would all go back south of the border".

He thinks of me as "English" (I don't) - so I suspect he'd like to export me back down south too.

I think it will have to be recalculated. I can't see the rest of the UK being happy with it continuing the way it is, especially as it seems to be fundamentally flawed if that article is anything to go by

In case anyone missed this at end of previous page...

The Daily Telegraph interviews the formula's inventor, Lord Barnett.

The 90-year-old devised the calculation in 1979 when he was chief secretary to the Treasury in Jim Callaghan's government.

Lord Barnett tells the Telegraph that his solution - which aimed at saving money by getting rid of the need to have secretaries of state for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - was "fundamentally flawed" as it used incorrect figures for Scotland's population.

The resultant "over-allocation" of £1,600 more per Scot than per English person "means [the Scottish government] have been able to do things that we can't, like [cap] prescription charges and university fees. That's not fair on English taxpayers," the former politician says.

"The real problem is that now no politician wants to tackle it," he adds.

But he cautions: "In my opinion, the leaders will have a job getting any new devolution plan through that keeps the Barnett formula."

On a note from Gordon Brown (I cant remember his wording) about people from both sides working to improve their communities...

Could we start a list of Scottish and UK charities and organisations who are making improvements campaigning for some of the changes people from both sides want to see.

I'm thinking of charities who tackle child poverty, homelessness, etc. Volunteering organisations and ones campaigning for electoral reform.

It's clear that many people feel powerless about these issues, and i think as well as engaging politically to change things we can also engage with the third sector to volunteer our time, donate money to and support them when they lobby governments of all stripes.

And of course people can join political parties which best represent their views too.

Sorry its taken me all morning to catch up with the thread and now I'm off out again. Its great to still be talking to you all but a shame to see rift won't be easily healed.

Take care everyone x

Scone yes, agreed - do you have anything in particular that you would like for Scotland?

Yes: total control of tax raising powers in Scotland (all types of taxes, not just income tax) with all money raised here spent here on the basis of decisions made by the Scottish Parliament probably summarises it quite nicely!

The power just to vary income tax does not achieve what is needed, especially if the net result is that what was raised in Scotland would in effect just be used to counteract the results of spending cuts imposed from Westminster.

Is that possible re promises made EarthWindFire?
It should be calculated fairly surely?

I don't know sapphire.

I guess it could. They said it would continue, not which version.

Gordon Brown's parliamentary motion : 'calls on the government to lay before Parliament a Command Paper including the proposals of all three UK political parties by 30th October and to consult widely with the Scottish people, civic Scotland and the Scottish Parliament on these proposals;'

A command paper is drawn up by civil servants before moving to draft legislation.

So that's 6 weeks we have to work out what we want and what is feasible and make ourselves heard.

That is interesting EarthWindFire.
Not tied to version on table now then? Just correcting formular?

Anything that's in between Sconequeen? As you can't really have that without full independence as we have so many shared services!

Scone and Spirited x-post.

So we need a forum to thrash all this out - I hope Gordon Brown will spear-head this and quickly, as we have a short time.

Tax-raising powers - we would have a big hole if we didn't get anything from the oil and gas - that's going to a fun negotiation

Continuing the theme of ironic developments...

Anyone else think it is ironic that Gordon Brown, who spent a great deal of energy while Chancellor in-fighting with his own party leader and Prime Minister and jostling for power with him (while at the same time presiding over an overspending government and letting the banks operate without proper controls with disastrous effects) is now positioned as a unifying force and the voice of reason...

I want to see a properly federal structure. I know Germany has a larger population at around 80 million but we are around 61 million and geographically smaller. I am a great admirer of the way they have structured themselves. So organised and so German :)

It is somewhat ironic! Maybe some time out of the front line has actually given him some time to reflect? I'm speculating of course but he does seem to be trying to do some good here.

scone I think I was discussing that with DH. He has had quite a remarkable turnaround. Although I don't think the failure of the economy was his alone. I like to reserve an awful lot of finger pointing for Blair and the greed of the banks themselves.

As you can't really have that without full independence as we have so many shared services!

The Scottish Parliament could agree on which shared services it wanted to buy from Westminster and pay for its share of these costs from the Scottish budget.

federal structure apparently only works well with areas of roughly the same population

will have to read up on it more, but someone was saying on R4 (which of course is without blemish ) that a confederacy, like Canada's, might be a better solution.

As admirable as his rallying call might be we have to remember that Gordon Brown is an opposition back bencher with a general election campaign coming up. He has no clout.

I think, in the wake if this, the determined Yes campaigners are going to have to look at some fairly hard questions. They had a charismatic leader and deputy, a huge pot of money from lottery wins, a very active campaign and made very sophisticated use of online media and posters / flyers etc. Yet, at the start of the campaign, only 38% were pro-Yes and the final result was just over 45%. In other words, all that money and enthusiasm, leadership and campaigning only convinced 7% to change their minds.

Maybe because the arguments were not convincing? Or not convincing enough. It doesn't matter what the White Paper says, or any other organisations,; the case was not made and the elcectorate has spoken. Why not look at the arguments themselves, rather than blaming the electorate for not getting them?

Confederation

vs

Federation

I feel very uneducated