To wonder why people think it's ok not to pay tradespeople?

[MrsWinnibago]

Just musing. I work as a freelance writer...don't judge my skills by the stuff I write on here! This is my resting place and I let everything go to pot here.

Anyway...I have a client who is great in that he's always there with lots work for me but he always takes a few days to pay me.

I invoice on the Monday for eg. and he goes to ground for a few days. I don't see why freelancers and tradespeople have to wait.

My DH is a painter and decorator and sometimes has the same issue. My BIL is a builder and OFTEN has this issue.

DH just told me that once, he did some work for a well known restaurant and stated that he'd need the invoice paying immediately on completion and the manager said "Most building companies have a 3 month period for payment....a window."

Er...so what?

Who made THAT the norm??

Tradespeople and freelancers need their bloody money! I wouldn't go into Topshop, take a dress and say "Oh I'll get this paid next week for you...promise!"

It's shit!

Most paye employees are paid in arrears, perhaps that is seen as "the norm" somehow?

Yeah.
DH is always punctilious about paying tradespeople the day he gets the bills because his grandad was a builder and MIL has lots of stories about bread and dripping for tea because even though her dad was always in work, his customers were sometimes rubbish about paying up.

Can you watermark your stuff and not release the final until payment?

I work in a construction related industry. The clients who are most in a rush for our work are the crappest payers. They get told the stuff is done and we can release it when we get payment. They grumble a lot, but keep coming back. We must be doing something right :-).

And deposits. Worth thinking about.

I try to make payments as soon as invoices come in. However I struggle with our window cleaner who won't give me his bank details to make an online transfer. Faffing about with cheques and dropping them round is an unnecessary pain in the arse.

And yes, we might be quite keen on our supplier pricing sometimes so we (and they) get the job, but we know what we're doing and our suppliers know they'll get paid within the month at the very most I. E within their commitments. And we're always approachable. Very little subbie turnover.

Like a poster above - you reap what you sow.

When I find a good trades person I treat them like bloody gold.

The chippy and plumber who fitted my kitchen got bacon sarnies for breakfast every morning and invoices paid the day I received them.

They did a great job for me and have since come back to do other work (even small fiddly crap most people wouldn't bother with) and linked me up with other trades people when I needed them because they know I can be relied upon and offer to pay for materials upfront and labour immediately on completion (and I make a great bacon Sarnie ).

When people complain they can't get a decent plumber, electrician etc I usually find a trail of shitty behaviour somewhere.

Upshot is trades are a community and bump into each other - if your known for being a crappy customer your not going to get the best people work for you in preference to people who treat a quality service with respect.

A few days!!!??? That would be great! I work freelance in publishing and it's normal to wait well over a month after invoicing to get paid. I spend a lot of time chasing up invoices too, because many clients just "forget" to pay until they get nagged. Recently I chased one up and was told rather huffily "it's only a week overdue!". That meant a week on top of the 30 days "terms" - but I was the one seen as being difficult. It's infuriating and crap. I regularly have several grand owed to me that is outstanding and not yet paid.

I always pay contractors and my accountant the moment they hand me their invoice, because I know what it's like.

I give two weeks of no payment before "friendly" phone calls that outlines at which point I go through legal avenues if I'm not paid. The contract I use states payment is upon completion and I give a weeks notice before wrapping up finishing touches. There's no excuse.

Most people are lovely about paying me on time. If I'm nervous because the person is in another country, I have them pay up front before I start work. I have references and everything else they can check up on if they wish, but I have nothing on them to guarantee they're good for their money.

My clients never get the finished product until they pay either, but they're paying for my time not the finished piece. So even if they cancel, they still need to pay the time I worked (provided they cancelled because of them and not dissatisfaction).

The firm I work for pays & asks for payment month end following invoice.

That gives us time to process all the invoices, check them off against contracts, make sure the work has been done satisfactorily, cost the job up then we set aside a day at the end of the month to write all the cheques.

Depends on the industry surely? I work freelance in interpreting and a month to three months is the norm. Only twice in over 10 years have I ever been paid within a few days (and it was the same client).

My DP has this problem too. He's a painter and decorator. Sometimes takes weeks and a polite reminder for people to pay for the work he has done. We have had the 'wouldn't do this in top shop etc' conversation many times.
It also always seems to be the most demanding of customers too, who expect their work completed in an unrealistic timescale , like yesterday! that seem to forget they have to pay when it's finished.
He does regular work for some lovely people too, who have the cheque written out as soon as the job is finished and like someone said up thread, they always get priority in the future over bad payers so anyone reading this who thinks its fine to make their workmen wait weeks and beg for payment after a job well done, don't be surprised if next time they are 'too busy' to fit you in.

DH and I work for seperate organisations however both businesses have 30 day to 90 day payment terms with all suppliers and contractors. This is contracted prior to any work been commissioned. The reason the businesses want longer payment terms is because of cash flow and it helps reduce their banking facility therefore costing them less in Bank charges. It's calculated.

However and on a personal note, if we have a sole trader or small business do any professional work for us at home then we try and pay as soon as we recieve the invoice unless the work is sub standard.

Most companies I bill for financial services take 1-3 months to pay, is taking the piss.

I always pay bills immediately/ a day after I receive them. Builders and tradespeople on longer jobs I provide stage payments weekly within reason if they're working hard and done the work agreed.

I've just had a think. Our worth their weight in gold suppliers get paid within the week. The rest get month end. Wish our clients thought the same. Although, naturally, the ones with whom we never have a payment issue seem to never have their own supplier issues. Funny that!

The folks with time related work - can you find a payment model that reflects that? In my former industry, we used to charge a 25% retainer at contract acceptance.

I agree, it is shit.

People assume that tradespeople are buying their own stock and supplies on account. Quite often, they're not. When we had the garage built, it was a tradeperson in the family (not close) who built it and it was less hassle for us to buy the materials ourselves (as he got no magic discounts for bricks, roof tiles, etc), then pay him for the time in instalments. The instalments, as work progressed, helped to keep trust on both sides. (He's coming back to do more work for us, soon, and the same arrangement applies)

And we had new windows fitted today. Local guy - DH knew him at school. He's already bought the materials and did a thorough job, so had no reason not to pay him, as he finished.

I do know people who work on paying every possible supplier or trade at the last possible minute, though. And unfortunately "know" someone who produced magazines to managed to run up a £200K printer bill before going into administration. She was fabulous at concocting the excuses. And rather adept at phoenixing and doing it all over again.

My dh is a musician, band leader, educationalist amongst other things and sometimes he can wait for up to 2 months for payment.
This means he has to keep a huge amount of money in the business to pay the band, because they all have families to support.
The worst has to be giving people your terms and conditions and then they ignore them and go by theirs, the bloody cheek.
The worst are public sector, we have had a representative of Leisure depts and education depts tell us when we will be paid like some bloody employee, so we said pay up or we withdraw services.
Start charging interest OP, they'll soon pay up.

I'm a freelancer and expect to be paid a month from invoicing even though I state 14 days terms. Many organisations only do bank runs once a week or less often or have accounts staff who work very part time.

I haven't used an independent trades person for years (we have a home are agreement) but when we got our windows done I think they invoiced a week after completion and I transferred the money that week.

I think most independent / freelance workers should have enough float to last till months end rather than living hand to mouth and requiring instant payment. After all employees are all paid at months end these days rather than weekly or fortnightly as in the past.

There's been a big push recently about payment to small businesses.

Bit of a stereotypical tip to smaller construction related peeps - get your invoice in just before you complete. And prioritise invoicing. If you get your partner to do it (to many men with trade related businesses) , pay her for starters, and then make sure you give her space to do the job that you would pay a lot more to an outsider. (rant over)

There's a nuance to the timing of invoicing. If you've done enough for the client to be delighted, but not enough for the job to be complete, whack in your invoice. Then mention it as an aside when calling them to sort the remainder.

If the firm/tradesperson use online banking it's easy. They get paid the day they finish.

It's harder if they need a cheque. I'm happy to give it to them directly the day they finish but if they want it sent by post that can sometimes take longer as we live a looooong way from a post box. And if I don't deal with something the same day I forget.

We had a problem with an electrician recently. He wouldn't take payment on the day but asked us to wait until he'd issued an invoice, which took over a month. We got it the day before we went on holiday for a fortnight and it just wasn't possible to get the cheque in the post before we went away. We got lots of messages about it while we were away… felt bad but what could we do?

Agree with museumum. Dh and I are both self employed and expect to be paid within 30 days of invoice date. We don't expect the businesses who employ us to make payments daily.

It's not just tradespeople.
I work for a kids after school sports provider in a very affluent area.
We ask that all payment is made by the second week of each term, invoices are sent out well in advance (usually 8 weeks before payment is due) around half of our clients pay late every term - some of the up to 15 weeks late.
They get reminders, emails, letter, phone calls. it is such a massive waste of my time and just takes the piss.
We are a small business and our staff have to be paid on time even if we are not.
We have one client that is totally rolling in money and he has paid late every term for the last 4 years (take in to account each invoice is only a couple of hundred pounds - the kind of money he would have in his pocket) it drives me mad.

I can handle 30 days but it has to be on time. I'm not stressing about non payment, and chasing. Eugh forget about it.

yanbu
but I only ever pay if I receive a proper invoice (email would do, but I need all the details, name/amount/vat/adress etc). if a builder takes 3 weeks to write me one...
I pay immediately after receipt of the invoice.