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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why people think it's ok not to pay tradespeople?

109 replies

MrsWinnibago · 18/09/2014 21:00

Just musing. I work as a freelance writer...don't judge my skills by the stuff I write on here! This is my resting place and I let everything go to pot here.

Anyway...I have a client who is great in that he's always there with lots work for me but he always takes a few days to pay me.

I invoice on the Monday for eg. and he goes to ground for a few days. I don't see why freelancers and tradespeople have to wait.

My DH is a painter and decorator and sometimes has the same issue. My BIL is a builder and OFTEN has this issue.

DH just told me that once, he did some work for a well known restaurant and stated that he'd need the invoice paying immediately on completion and the manager said "Most building companies have a 3 month period for payment....a window."

Er...so what?

Who made THAT the norm??

Tradespeople and freelancers need their bloody money! I wouldn't go into Topshop, take a dress and say "Oh I'll get this paid next week for you...promise!"

It's shit!

OP posts:
Catsize · 20/09/2014 20:32

greengrow, I hope you do take money first if ever you instruct a barrister. I am owed tens of thousands thanks to this not being done by various solicitors over the course of my career, and they seem to think I should just accept it. Tell that to my overdraft/credit card/unpaid maternity leave etc.

LittlePeaPod · 20/09/2014 20:33

BIWI I am not trying to justify our position. I am simply telling you how it is. We are a business not a charity. If suppliers or contractors don't like our terms then they don't have to tender. We have customers and we have to deliver based on their terms or we lose the business or don't win the contract. That's business.

By the way I am not in procurement but I expect our procurement team to deliver the best deal for our business. For me its black and white.

ILoveTurnips · 20/09/2014 20:33

There is no excuse not to pay immediately especially with everyone (nearly) using bank transfer.

All my tradesmen know I pay immediately and without quibbling. As well as being the right thing to do its also in my interests as they all think I'm great and I dont have difficulty getting tradesmen to do work for me

MrsCampbellBlack · 20/09/2014 21:04

I think tradesmen is different to contractors being paid by businesses.

LittlePeaPod · 20/09/2014 21:12

I think tradesmen is different to contractors being paid by businesses.

^ this^.

Greengrow · 20/09/2014 21:21

Cat, I rarely do that kind of work and I don't hold clients' money. I certainly understand your point. I have a few massive international clients and they would never not pay and they pay counsel direct in the current litigation we have.

BIWI · 20/09/2014 22:19

If suppliers or contractors don't like our terms then they don't have to tender

But often your suppliers don't have a choice. They don't tender, they don't get any work. And then what?

KERALA1 · 20/09/2014 23:21

I now ask clients for payment up front. Happy to take a post dated cheque which they can cancel if they don't receive my work (which of course they will do) but I leave the meeting with my fee. Took instructions, gave advice sent document, never heard from them again way too often to operate any other way. Am lawyer with lots of one off private individual clients with whom I have no further relationship so on very weak footing when chasing payment once they have the work.

SanityClause · 20/09/2014 23:27

I think tradesmen is different to contractors being paid by businesses.

Um, why?

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 01:19

But often your suppliers don't have a choice. They don't tender, they don't get any work. And then what?

Not our problem. They tender, they accept our terms.

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 01:41

I think tradesmen is different to contractors being paid by businesses.

Um, why?.

I am assuming by tradesmen the poster meant sole traders etc. On that bases, we don't have self employed tradesmen working for our organisation. The jobs are too big for trades men (1/5 men) to take on. However if we did they would need to work on our terms.

On the other hand DH and I do use tradesmen at home and we normally pay on completion of agreed and satisfied work. We don't need to worry about managing our banking facilities (charges ect.) or cash flow in the same way we do in business.

MrsCampbellBlack · 21/09/2014 07:11

The contractors we employ through our business are generally on large day rates and as I mentioned and others have said their payments are processed in batches, not on an ad hoc basis.

Where as when I get an invoice from a plumber/gardener for work done on my home I just pay online when I get home that evening.

Businesses operate differently. And hardly anyone gets paid weekly anymore even if they are a permanent employee. Contractors are held to a different standard hence their larger day rate in my experience.

In the same way that as a business we don't get paid by our clients the day we invoice, we accept there is a purchasing and payment process that we have to accept.

BIWI · 21/09/2014 08:20

Not our problem. They tender, they accept our terms

Urgh.

Bully boy tactics.

I hope you're not one of my clients.

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 08:24

It's business BIWI. Not sure why you think its bully boy tactics... It's business.

MiddletonPink · 21/09/2014 08:24

I never knew people did that. How rude.
We've had loads of tradesmen in the house over the last 6 months ( recently moved ) and either pay by cheque when work is done or bank transfer. Wouldn't dream of delaying payment.

Polyethyl · 21/09/2014 08:27

I regret paying my kitchen fitter immediately. My colleagues warned me not to. But at the time I thought he had done a good job. Now I feel like a naive mug. If I had delayed paying by just a few days I would have discovered that the sink blocks regularly, and I might have got some after care from the kitchen fitter - instead of weeks of delaying tactics and then being shouted at.

BIWI · 21/09/2014 08:51

Business doesn't have to be like that though, does it? We're in business to make money, obviously, but surely you can do it whilst treating your suppliers with more respect?

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 09:09

Business doesn't have to be like what? In what way are we treating contractors and suppliers disrespectfully? It's clear as day in the Tender Brief and in our Terms of Business what they are signing up for. We pay promptly as long as invoices are in. We are clear about payment terms. We don't say we will pay you on 'set date' and then renege and defer/delay payment..

The only time payment is deferred/delayed is if the fuck the work up or don't hit deadlines. In this case its deferred till the issue is resolved, work is completed or goods delivered.

My concerns are very simple. Hit our numbers, grow the business and therefore ensure the people that work in my division get paid a decent wage and don't get made redundant.

We are not a social enterprise, we are a corporate business.

BIWI · 21/09/2014 09:12

I work in corporate business too. Not sure why you would think I don't Hmm

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 09:15

BIWI. At what point did I say you didn't work in a corporate business or any sort of business? Confused. I think you just made that one up!

MrsCampbellBlack · 21/09/2014 09:26

Most contractors seem to have 30 days payment terms and we abide by that - often they get paid quicker than that.

But we won't alter our processes to suit one particular contractor eg, weekly payment. There are plenty of contractors out there in our area of business so we don't need to. If there wasn't - maybe we'd do things differently. But contractors are a last resort for us - we always prefer permanent staff.

Greengrow · 21/09/2014 10:10

You have to go by what is the norm. It sounds from the thread that most tradesmen at home except payment very quickly. In fact our plumber/washing machine company ask for a deposit before they turn up.

However business to business transactions 30 days is pretty typical and commercially agreed. Some of my clients pay me the day of the bill even though 30 days is agreed and that's great. Other bigger companies have procedures to go through to get things approved and it might take longer - one pays me in 6 weeks and that's fine too as they always pay in that time.

What I do think is beyond the pale and the EU late payment legislation is designed to stop is very very very long periods of non payment by big often Government buyers which really cause problems for smaller traders. That is why we now have the new statutory 30 day payment period although that can be 60 days if you agree otherwise (and longer if that is reasonable or some other vague language i think it is). 180 days could be abusive - large buyers in a dominant position can breach competition law by imposing unreasonable terms.

MrsCampbellBlack · 21/09/2014 10:17

I agree Greengrow.

MarshaBrady · 21/09/2014 10:23

I am lucky to ask for how I like it, but it's not standard. Everyone is happy.

30 days is fine for me, although it was 60 + which is too long.

LittlePeaPod · 21/09/2014 10:24

Green. I agree however the 90 days isn't unusual in our sector. We work on international business which is shipped on sea. As an example most of our Asian suppliers provide 90 day payment terms. I think we also need to consider the sector and territory applied