To wonder why people think it's ok not to pay tradespeople?

[MrsWinnibago]

Just musing. I work as a freelance writer...don't judge my skills by the stuff I write on here! This is my resting place and I let everything go to pot here.

Anyway...I have a client who is great in that he's always there with lots work for me but he always takes a few days to pay me.

I invoice on the Monday for eg. and he goes to ground for a few days. I don't see why freelancers and tradespeople have to wait.

My DH is a painter and decorator and sometimes has the same issue. My BIL is a builder and OFTEN has this issue.

DH just told me that once, he did some work for a well known restaurant and stated that he'd need the invoice paying immediately on completion and the manager said "Most building companies have a 3 month period for payment....a window."

Er...so what?

Who made THAT the norm??

Tradespeople and freelancers need their bloody money! I wouldn't go into Topshop, take a dress and say "Oh I'll get this paid next week for you...promise!"

It's shit!

YANBU - I used to work for someone who thought it was acceptable to keep suppliers waiting 90 days or even 120 days - some of these people were sole traders - I no longer work for that person

Mintyy I don't expect to be paid daily Where did I say that? I work in batches...weekly batches for this particular client and it pisses me off that he can't pay me before he will expect me to have begun the next batch!

Also re the being paid in arrears thing...doesn't apply here. This is a service I provide, like a hairdresser or something! You'd not pop off for a perm and then say "Oh I'll get a cheque out when someone does a bank run"

Maus Who doesn't send a proper invoice? I do.

So, don't start the next batch. But be gentle when you broach the subject. I keep telling my boss to give masterclasses in this. He is genius. Gentle but non-comprompising. If they (and you) value what you do, they'll pay up if you ask nicely.

What I actually said was "I don't expect the businesses who pay us to make payments daily". Meaning that I don't expect owners of small businesses (such as the three I freelance for) to log on to internet banking every day and make payments to various people. They generally sit down and do a batch of bills together, maybe even once a month (they might even employ a freelance admin person like me to do this task) and I think that's normal and reasonable.

Like I said, if I were in a paye job I'd expect to be paid once a month in arrears, as a self employed person I'm happy with the same.

If I were a tradesperson I would ask for some payment upfront to cover the cost of materials.

A few days! Is that all? I don't get paid for months and months sometimes. I think you have to get a bit realistic. 30 days is standard.

I have a friend do some translation work for me and apologised for being slow in paying as it took me a few days after getting the invoice. She laughed and said that was the fastest she had ever been paid.

A few days would be great - within the 28days due date on my invoice would be great! The bigger the client the worse they tend to be. In the past worked for a big international construction group who sneakily changed the small print on the contract to a. 6mth payment term & then still failed to pay on time.
I always pay trades within 24hrs as long as everything is satisfactory. I am however withholding final payment on some awful work until it is rectified.

What are your terms of business? TBH, in business, it's very unusual to pay someone before 30 days have elapsed. If you want to be paid earlier than this, then you need to negotiate specific terms with your client. What are their terms of business? You're more likely to find that they don't pay - officially - until after 60 days or even, increasingly, after 90 days.

What does your invoice say regarding payment?

Most self-employed people I've encountered have a window in which payment is due, most often 14 days.

They liked working with my company (not my company, just the company I worked for) because we always paid well within the period rather than waiting til the very end and then dawdling a bit.

How could you possibly bill for a week's work and then not start the next week's work til you were paid? Finish work Friday, write up how much you did, give them the invoice Monday morning, and then... what?

Funnily I have found that bigger companies pay me more quickly--once I have got into their regular payment system and that can be painful. The other thing I have noted after 19 years freelancing as a writer and editor is that the smaller the client the more hassle there will be. Perhaps because they are less used to hiring people and don't know how to package up the work and efficiently sign it off to make it quick and easy for me to do it and thus less costly.

I know exactly how you feel - I am self employed and the chasing invoices is the worst part about it! I once had a client who said that he would pay at a certain time etc and it was a lot of work - he was a partner in the company, 5 months later I was still chasing that money! In the end I was emailing everybody - his partner, the accounts person - on the hour. I hadn't had any communication in over a month. Eventually, after being literally on the phone and sending emails all day for a few days - I was paid, with some ridiculous 'cash flow' excuse, when the fact is they were drastically overstretching themselves.

The next month they asked me to work for them again. It was a no. My favourite thing about being self employed is being able to pick and choose who I work for, and I won't work twice for bad payers.

PeoplePerHour is great as the terms of the actual site demand invoices within 7 days and the money is in escrow.

I think in construction the big companies are worse because they hold so much power within the industry. They seem to be set up to hold onto cash as long as possible in their own accounts especially PFI clients.
Public services have for me always been great clients for payment because they are used to handling regular invoices and not paying on time screws their own systems up.

This "Most building companies have a 3 month period for payment....a window." thing drives me BANANAS. IT IS NOT TRUE. YOU ARE LYING TO TRY TO WRONG-FOOT ME SO I WILL BACK OFF.

Sorry. deep breaths I've had this on occasion from clients "Oh, most contractors (who? NAME ONE) don't expect payment for 60 days" etc." and it's just so manipulative. Please don't hire me if you don't intend to pay me.

Most freelance journalists have to wait around a month for payment - so if somebody is paying you in a matter of days then that's very unusual.

Some publishing groups take MONTHS to pay.

Unfortunately tradesman don't have a great reputation so I understand that people want to wait until the job is done and check there are no problems before they cough up. Ever tried to get a builder back to fix a faulty job you've paid him for?

In my experience barristers might get paid within about 6 months, but longer isn't uncommon. I'm about to get paid for some legal work I did in 2011.

I'm a freelance writer too and 30 day payment terms are the norm for me. I sometimes shorten that to 14 days for one-off clients just to keep things ticking along, but not very often. I've also requested a deposit in the past for large projects with new clients - a safety net in case they try anything dodgy - although I must confess I've never had any trouble getting paid the final balance.

TBH I'd think you were unprofessional to expect next day payments if I were dealing with you (and I have been on the other side hiring writers in the past too). You'd come across as lacking a general understanding about how businesses tend to work if you asked me for payment immediately. Very few companies make payments daily. Like someone else mentioned, lots make payment runs on a specific date each month.

With larger companies, I tend to issue my invoice and just ask what date they make their payments so I can keep an eye out around that time, and with smaller outfits, I give them until about a week before payment due date and then drop them a polite email checking that they'll be able to make payment by XX date in accordance with our agreement. Problems are rare.

Part of being a freelancer involves managing your money differently, so you need to keep a pot of money from previous projects that will keep you going while you're waiting for others payments to come through. I think I would be MUCH more stressed if I worked the way you do. I like to fire off an invoice and get stuck into the next project (even if it's with the same client) not hassle them for payment within days. I think if you adopted a different approach to your own business, you might feel less frustrated about the way other people operate theirs. Or maybe you've just taken on a nightmare client who won't pay at all unless you hassle them? I wouldn't keep working for a client like that. There are loads of decent companies out there willing to pay good money for good writers. Don't waste your time with the p1ss-takers.

The problem with big companies is that it has to go round the signature loop. My accounts assistant will give an engineer an invoice three times before it dawns on him that he needs to do more than just look at it! Then you have to wait for the next payment run... Less than 30 days often isn't possible, especially once you factor in holidays etc.

I'm a freelancer too, and I've waited anywhere up to eight months for payment. It does suck. Now I have a few dependable clients who pay smartly and so I stick with them wherever I can.

The worst was a small business I did some work for. I ended up calling them every day for a week after eight months of excuses like "the cheque is in the mail" (honestly!) and "I did a bank transfer - didn't it go through??" In the end they asked me to do some more work for them and I said yeah sure - when you pay me. They paid that same day and I told them I was too busy to do the extra work.

This is where you need a good contract with penalties for late payment.

Finance depts process these very promptly!

Not all companies will sign a contract like that though BreakingDad and sometimes the large ones with the big budgets (who tend to pay on time anyway) are the ones who wouldn't touch a contract like that with a barge pole. You don't want the wording of your small print to stop you getting the job - if your competitors have similar skills and experience but have no such clause, who do you think they'll choose?

We invoice our clients and expect to be paid within 30 days. After that it is death by nagging from me. They all pay up in the end.

however I do pay my handyman on the day he finishes the job (and up front for materials) and normally in cash! I trust him to declare it all, and if he does not, that is between him and HMRC.

We invoice our clients and expect to be paid within 30 days. After that it is death by nagging from me. They all pay up in the end.

however I do pay my handyman on the day he finishes the job (and up front for materials) and normally in cash! I trust him to declare it all, and if he does not, that is between him and HMRC.