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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to ask this of DD's teacher?

63 replies

Stinkle · 18/09/2014 11:26

Sorry, this is going to be long

DD2 is 9 and has just started in year 5. She has some quite complicated learning needs, and also struggles with anxiety.

She's really routine focused and when things happen that are different or unexpected she gets horribly anxious. This is usually panic about things going wrong - things like will mum forget to pick me up from school? Will my hamster die? Have I got spiders in my hair? Is Nanny OK? (My grandmother who is now quite elderly and frail and has been having some health issues lately). She gets quite obsessive and this builds and builds and builds until she becomes overwhelmed and then completely breaks down.

One of the things that the Ed Psych recommended was a picture chart which shows her what's happening now, and what's happening next - she has problems processing too much information given to her in one go, so we have to give this information to her in small chunks. We have a chart at home and last year she had one in school - worked brilliantly and she was much less anxious.

So this year. It hasn't gone so well. New classroom, new teacher, new expectations, rules and routines and she's found it all really difficult. She always finds those first few weeks in a new class really hard and needs a bit of support to begin with. I had a meeting at the beginning of the year with her new teacher and the SENCo to discuss her needs, etc, and the teacher made it clear that she didn't want to continue with the chart and felt that DD would soon get used to the timetable and routine in her class. SENCo was great and really supported me, and in the end the teacher reluctantly agreed that she'd continue with the chart for the first few weeks then we'd revisit it after half term. Fine, once she gets used to new routines she's fine, so no problem.

On Tuesday I picked DD up from school and I could see that she'd not had a great day and the TA mentioned that she'd had a bad afternoon. The obsessing about Nanny/hamster/spiders/etc started on the way home and ended with a full blown meltdown when we got home. It turned out that her usual teacher wasn't in the classroom for the afternoon as she had some planned non-contact time. DD had come back from lunch to find a different teacher - DD loves this teacher - she was in this teacher's class last year so no issues with the teacher or the change, but she wasn't expecting it and it was 'different'.

I had another meeting with teacher yesterday (at her instigation) and I mentioned Tuesday and wondered that where possible, could DD be warned about changes like this.

Obviously, things happen unexpectedly and we can't control everything and sometimes, with the best will in the world, stuff just happens. That's fine, we'll deal with that, but in instances like this, where the change is planned and known about in advance, is it really that difficult to accommodate?

All was that when they're changing the pictures on the chart to say something like "it'll be maths this afternoon, but I won't be in the classroom so when you come back from lunch X will be here"

The teacher refused point blank and made it clear that she thought I was completely unreasonable to even ask.

OP posts:
Stinkle · 18/09/2014 11:29

Sorry, missed out a bit. Should say,

All that I asked was that when they're changing the pictures on the chart to say something like "it'll be maths this afternoon, but I won't be in the classroom so when you come back from lunch X will be here"

OP posts:
Bslami · 18/09/2014 11:31

Definitely not unreasonable. It has been proven to work for goodness sake. It's not up to her to decide what your does or doesn't need.

If an Ed Psych suggested the chart and the senco is trying to facilitate she is being unhelpful in not going along with it

mumof6needssanity · 18/09/2014 11:31

You are not being unreasonable at all. My ds's teacher does this for him and actually for set non contact time all the children know and have the same cover ppa each time.
We also this year have a timetable for each dc so we can got though it at home too.

coppertop · 18/09/2014 11:32

My ds used to have a similar chart/timetable when he was at primary school. His teacher always used to tell him in advance if there was going to be someone else in the classroom.

Come to think of it, I'm fairly sure she also told the whole class if she had plans to be out of the classroom.

YANBU

Orangetart · 18/09/2014 11:32

You are not being unreasonable at all. A visual timetable is a very common thing and in my experience two or three children in a class often require them.
As for the change of teacher in my experience it is normal for a teacher to tell the whole class if there is a planned change.
Is your DD entitled to any TA support? It sounds like she would benefit from it.

lovetheautumn · 18/09/2014 11:33

The teacher sounds very unreasonable and not at all understanding to me. I was similar to your daughter when I was younger, very anxious and have always been a worrier, still am! And I don't think anyone has ever really understood me even now lol! It sounds like she doesn't understand how hard it can be and is brushing it off as not that important in her eyes, I don't think you asked for much at all

Bslami · 18/09/2014 11:34

Has she had it clearly explained to her (the teacher) that this is not a maturation issue but a personality one?
Do you think she's really stressed (the teacher ) or just a know-all control freak is it a big class?
Could you try again & say you're worried your daughter's anxiety could turn into OCD and she could real help

littleducks · 18/09/2014 11:35

I think you need to go back in and see the SENCO and make sure the visual timetable is listed on her IEP

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 18/09/2014 11:37

Sounds a reasonable request on your part. What was the teacher's objection to it. Would it be worth speaking to Senco for their support?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 18/09/2014 11:45

I would not be happy with this teacher's intransigence. YANBU.

steppemum · 18/09/2014 11:46

ed psych suggested it
SENco endorsed it
it has been shown to work
first time she doesn't use it dd is distressed.
teacher obviously doesn't get that this is connected to her LD and her needs.

No contest teacher is being an arse.

Ask for a meeting with senco, and say you need the school to insist on this with the teacher not you, and school should be going with what ed psych recommends.

If no result go to head.

Totally reasonable on your part.

EllasMum16 · 18/09/2014 11:59

Yanbu, she has a responsibility to cater to her students' needs, within reason (and this isn't a big ask).

Stinkle · 18/09/2014 12:00

Thanks all!

I think the teacher thinks that DD is in year 5 now and should be starting to 'toughen up'.

She is quite no nonsense, DD1 had the same teacher in year 5 and loved her and did very well, but DD2 is struggling.

We don't have a statement or anything like that. In previous years all her teachers have been more than happy to accommodate her. She's had 1-1 time, interventions and lots and lots of help so we've been happy to trust school and let them take the lead. In hindsight, and I'm really kicking myself now, we should have formalised all this before, but we have now started on the process for the statementing.

I'm going to go back this afternoon and speak to the SENCo again.

Thanks!

OP posts:
MrsGeorgeMichael · 18/09/2014 12:16

sounds like teacher doesn't get SEN.

what is school protocol for you now re going over teachers head?

snowmummy · 18/09/2014 12:28

Yanbu. Definitely go over her head. See the senco and ensure the head knows what's going on.

Stinkle · 18/09/2014 12:41

Thanks.

I'm going to see the SENCo after school today.

Can I just check that I've understood this correctly though, once something is on a signed IEP it's binding? - although they seem to be called something else now I think? Do they have the same clout? Before I go in spouting nonsense and make an idiot of myself.

We haven't had one for this term yet, it's coming, but I'll make sure that the chart is included on there

If I get no joy with the teacher, I can go to the head. The SENCo is in my corner so I have support from her.

It's just the teacher seemed to think I was completely unreasonable, so I was beginning to wonder if it was just me.

OP posts:
mummytime · 18/09/2014 13:08

The teacher is unreasonable.

My DD has started secondary school - when I spoke to the HOYs about her anxiety about things like "fire practice" she said it was quite normal for them to "let some children know" that one was going to happen, and they have 300 pupils to keep an eye on not 30.

I don't know how binding an IEP is, but if the specific measurable things in it are not carried out then you have more grounds for complaint.

What other help is your DD getting? Is she seeing CAMHS for example? Because I would be asking loudly for support from school and GP and anyone else who can help.

ILovePud · 18/09/2014 13:19

Sorry that your DD is having a tough time. YANBU, in your position I'd feel very frustrated with the teacher. This chart sounds like a simple step which has proved effective. It sounds like it helps your daughter manage her anxiety which will not only be best for her but also for the smooth running of the classroom otherwise she'll be upset and seeking reassurance all the time. Good luck with the SENCO.

Noodledoodledoo · 18/09/2014 13:48

IEP's no longer exist - it is now a Pupil Passport. Where they are on the scale will also dictate if they have one. It was all bought in in September and I am on Mat leave so not 100% of the implications on the whole spectrum.

OneInEight · 18/09/2014 13:49

How frustrating. It would take minimal effort from the teacher. It would be beneficial not only to your daughter but the rest of the class. Why? Why? Why?

Stinkle · 18/09/2014 13:53

Thanks,

My GP referred her to CAHMS but they didn't feel she met their threshold. They gave us some recommendations and suggestions, but in all honesty, it was stuff we'd managed to work out for ourselves

To be fair, this was last year when she was able to manage it much better, I've just made another doctors appointment to ask for another referral.

In previous years, school have been fantastic. Lots of support in class, she's had 1-1 time which she hasn't really been entitled to, she's done the ELSA programme, lots of intervention groups and stuff like that, but school have had the time and resources to give it.

It's my fault, I should have stepped up earlier and had it all formalised before now, but I trusted school and took their lead. She starts high school in 2 years and it's really worrying me.

OP posts:
Stinkle · 18/09/2014 13:55

Sorry, cross posts.

Yes, - Pupil Passport - I've been wracking my brains over what they're called! Pupil Passport - she does have one.

OP posts:
wheresthelight · 18/09/2014 13:59

I would ask for a meeting with senco and the head teacher to discuss this further and get firm rules in place.

I would also push to get her properly assessed and statemented or the transition to secondary school is going to be extra hard for her.

the teacher sounds like she has a real lack of empathy and understanding. hope your dd is ok

TheIronGnome · 18/09/2014 14:02

I think statementing would be a good idea. It sounds like the teachers is not taking the needs of your dd seriously and while that is a problem in itself, statementing will mean that issues she has can be official and will need to be recognised by all carers. It might also mean you are entitled for more support and help.

ILovePud · 18/09/2014 14:17

OP, I wonder if you can make enquiries as to what the local CAMHs criteria is, it sounds like your daughter is suffering with a fairly debilitating anxiety disorder and that this has gone of for some time now. If you've tried what they've suggested and this hasn't resolved things then I'd be pushing for a re-referral, I think they should at least be offering an assessment rather than going off the paper referral. Has the GP made a mental health diagnosis, sometimes just a vague listing of symptoms doesn't tick the magic box to get into services?

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