WIBU to ask this of DD's teacher?

[Stinkle]

Sorry, this is going to be long

DD2 is 9 and has just started in year 5. She has some quite complicated learning needs, and also struggles with anxiety.

She's really routine focused and when things happen that are different or unexpected she gets horribly anxious. This is usually panic about things going wrong - things like will mum forget to pick me up from school? Will my hamster die? Have I got spiders in my hair? Is Nanny OK? (My grandmother who is now quite elderly and frail and has been having some health issues lately). She gets quite obsessive and this builds and builds and builds until she becomes overwhelmed and then completely breaks down.

One of the things that the Ed Psych recommended was a picture chart which shows her what's happening now, and what's happening next - she has problems processing too much information given to her in one go, so we have to give this information to her in small chunks. We have a chart at home and last year she had one in school - worked brilliantly and she was much less anxious.

So this year. It hasn't gone so well. New classroom, new teacher, new expectations, rules and routines and she's found it all really difficult. She always finds those first few weeks in a new class really hard and needs a bit of support to begin with. I had a meeting at the beginning of the year with her new teacher and the SENCo to discuss her needs, etc, and the teacher made it clear that she didn't want to continue with the chart and felt that DD would soon get used to the timetable and routine in her class. SENCo was great and really supported me, and in the end the teacher reluctantly agreed that she'd continue with the chart for the first few weeks then we'd revisit it after half term. Fine, once she gets used to new routines she's fine, so no problem.

On Tuesday I picked DD up from school and I could see that she'd not had a great day and the TA mentioned that she'd had a bad afternoon. The obsessing about Nanny/hamster/spiders/etc started on the way home and ended with a full blown meltdown when we got home. It turned out that her usual teacher wasn't in the classroom for the afternoon as she had some planned non-contact time. DD had come back from lunch to find a different teacher - DD loves this teacher - she was in this teacher's class last year so no issues with the teacher or the change, but she wasn't expecting it and it was 'different'.

I had another meeting with teacher yesterday (at her instigation) and I mentioned Tuesday and wondered that where possible, could DD be warned about changes like this.

Obviously, things happen unexpectedly and we can't control everything and sometimes, with the best will in the world, stuff just happens. That's fine, we'll deal with that, but in instances like this, where the change is planned and known about in advance, is it really that difficult to accommodate?

All was that when they're changing the pictures on the chart to say something like "it'll be maths this afternoon, but I won't be in the classroom so when you come back from lunch X will be here"

The teacher refused point blank and made it clear that she thought I was completely unreasonable to even ask.

Hi. My ds suffers from similar anxiety, although not to the same extent. (school have dealt with it informally, senco aware but not directly involved).

Transition is a trigger for him too, and the start of a new school year is always a flash point.

We had a major wobble last year - year 5. New teacher, new to the school etc. He ended up being fantastic, just warning ds in advance if things were going to change during the week.

We also worked on how he deals with it himself, as I was concerned about secondary and just life in general. He was basically able to describe how he felt, and it is clearly a panic attack, so school and I worked on breathing and counting etc.

Actually, once he realised he could control the panic to some extent, he found it much much easier.

I know that your dd is not exactly the same, but I agree that year 5 is an important year for maturity, and school must support this. I would go right back to the senco. Good luck.

My DD who has AS behaves in a very similar way and needs exactly what you have described. The school and I are negotiating it at the moment. We have CAMHS and the OT on our side and I have no doubt that the school will have to do it once we've had a meeting.

You need to confirm everything you've said on this thread in writing to the school in an email asking them very clearly to put this in place immediately. Toughening children up is a load of tosh. It can be clearly shown that your DD needs this support. If she doesn't get it, her anxiety will affect her ability to access the curriculum and she won't be able to process information and learn effectively. This email can then be used as evidence for the EHC assessment and it will help you get it written into her EHC plan if she gets one.

The class teacher does seem unsympathetic, but I am sure after a few weeks of your daughter (and you) having meltdown every time something unexpected occurs, she will remember to prepare her. Try to make a friend of her, not antagonise her. But you must accept that this is Year 5 and this behaviour is not expected; does your daughter or the class have any TA support who could take on this responsibility?
It may not sound much to you but it is yet one more thing for an over-stretched teacher to remember; I should push for TA support.
What has occurred in her life to make your daughter so anxious? There is usually an underlying reason, such as divorce, separation, parental anxieties? Is the teacher fully aware of this?

How far have you got with the application for a statement? Has the statutory assessment happened?

YANBU - it is best practice in teaching to (wherever possible) make sure that the children know what is going to happen next, regardless of SEN. I teach in a secondary school, and the students respond really well to being told in advance what we are going to do next lesson. I always tell them in advance if I'm not going to be in a lesson (unless it is unexpected illness) because it is just good manners.

In addition, your child doesn't have to be registered with any SEN in order for the teacher to be required to put additional practices in place to help her. It is part of the Teachers Standards to "Adapt teaching to respond to the strengths and needs of all pupils". If the teacher is failing to meet this standard then she isn't meeting her professional responsibilities.

Thanks all!

No, the Statutory Assessment hasn't happened yet.

We have been round and round the houses trying to get this done.

We'd had some concerns about her progress at school and had sought help for a while, GP/teacher/etc felt that a lot of the problems were down to general immaturity and would improve as she got older (she's a summer baby and one of the youngest in her class)

Then towards the end of year 3 her teacher approached us, as she had the same concerns that we'd been had. School has an onsite Ed Psych who did some initial assessments and they pinpointed some concerns and made some recommendations. School applied for the assessment. LA turned it down on as they wanted more evidence and wouldn't accept the report as wasn't done by one of their Ed Psychs

So, we then had eye tests, hearing tests, saw a paediatrician, an assessment with CAMHS (who didn't feel she met their threshold), an OT assessment (which we had to wait several months for - they also pinpointed some issues and made some recommendations). School reapplied, turned down, as there were some other things the LA wanted to try first. DD then did the ELSA programme, did 6 weeks martial arts and some other sporty type programmes. She's had lots of intervention classes in numeracy/literacy, they've provided her fidget cushions, fiddle sticks and all sorts of things like that.

School applied again for the Stat Assessment at the end of the last school year, and we're now waiting their response.

I've seen the SENCo again today. She's going to ensure her chart is included on her PP, and we have another meeting arranged for Monday - this time with the head, the teacher, the school's EP and the SENCo

But you must accept that this is Year 5 and this behaviour is not expected;

This behaviour should be fully expected from a child who has a need which has been identified by the Ed Psych. I know pupils well into their secondary education who need this support. This should not be identified as poor or immature behaviour.

does your daughter or the class have any TA support who could take on this responsibility?

It's the teacher's responsibility to allocate staff responsibilities. Parents don't get involved in working out who provides support. They just need to make sure the support is in place and, if not, keep raising the issue until it is addressed.

So you have had a great deal of support already.
Confirms my original opinion, which I shall keep to myself.

She doesn't need a statement for an IEP or IBP. It will be a "school action" plan and I can't believe the SENCO hasn't written one already or that she hasn't had one before.

Y5 teacher here - I am surprised at the attitude of your dds teacher. Definitely act on it. At the end of the day it's no biggie to have a visual timetable - I let the kids change mine at the start of each day and always tell the class of any changes - personally I think it's only polite to keep the children informed. Plus it stops the endless "what have we got now??" questions!

Could you ask the senco for a copy of the class timetable and mark on the sessions that will be covered by different staff? Then you can look at it with dd each morning.

halamadrid as of September 'school action' is no longer used - All SEN provision has been drastically changed this term across the board. Hence the new Pupil Passports. As I said previously I am not 100% of the implications as I am not SEN coordinator and also on Mat leave so not in school!

When you say 'school action' is that the old School Action followed by School Action Plus which they do before moving onto the IEP?

If so, yes, we did all that before we moved on to the IEP. Sorry, I forgot about them in my post above

I'll ask for the time table at the meeting on Monday

Also, just noticed I wrote end of year 3 in my post above, it was actually end of year 2.

Her class is actually quite small - 19, with 1 full and 1 part time TA

Thanks!

YANBU. DD2 needed this, but the teacher thought she would do better with her 'mixing it up a little'. She's HE now.

YANBU . Bottom line is that it would be a courtesy to the whole class to let them know what's going on/who's teaching them when.

Sorry, I'm in Wales. Really, the teacher should be following what is written on the IEP/ pupil passport or whatever. If she's not, the SENCO should be having words with her. You shouldn't have to wait for a statement. In my county there are very few statements given out so the children would be stuffed if the teachers didn't follow school action plus because they disagreed with what was on there.

The poster that suggest you could get your child statemented obviously has no idea quite how serious a special need gets before a statement is considered. Think: severely autistic/non-verbal, Down's syndrome, working at the level of a five year odl when you're eleven etc.

I would suggest you simply book to speak to the head. What you're asking the teacher to do really isn't that complicated. I teach in primary and we do this kind of thing routinely,

The poster that suggest you could get your child statemented obviously has no idea quite how serious a special need gets before a statement is considered. Think: severely autistic/non-verbal, Down's syndrome, working at the level of a five year odl when you're eleven etc.

I have a highly academically able and verbally articulate DD whose difficulties are related to her AS and largely centre around anxiety. She sounds very similar to the OP's DD. She has a statement and funding for one to one TA support.

Pippin - that isn't true but it is what LA's like people to believe as it puts them off applying for statements.

I think all children benefit from knowing the timetable. In secondary school children write them into their own planners. I have taught KS2 classes in hundreds of schools. Good teachers always communicate what is happening during the day with the class, especially unexpected changes where possible.

We have a visual timetable on the board. It's a whole class one, though,..not an individual one. I've had children with anxiety issues before (complete meltdown, if anything changed...). This isn't really the case this year, but I automatically talk my class through any changes. They know when I've got PPA,...and also what I have planned for them to do in that time. When they have supply cover, I talk them through the day I will leave for them in terms of planning and will let them know who the supply teacher is going to be (if I can find out).

Year 5 should be a bit of a step up, though. I've been teaching this year group for ages and have frequently been handed up children, who had been classed as having severe SEN by their previous schools. A lot of the time, they had been underestimated in LKS2 and coped fine in my class, without magnetic plastic letters, 5-minute targets and pre-written sentences for them to copy. That doesn't mean that I ignored their needs, but that I tried to move them into more independence...which usually worked very well. We did this gradually, though,..and all the routines and support where still there, if needed.

That was me pippin, I have worked extensively with special needs children and it is possible to get statements for less severe needs as Goldmandra says.

Op you are not being unreasonable at all.

You know what? SEN or no SEN, the idea of 'toughening up' children is so ridiculously counterproductive. If a child is already anxious, a brusque response makes them more so. What is so wrong with being kind and courteous? Gives much better results imo, in terms of learning as well as general demeanour. This kind of inflexible attitude makes me cross!

Thatssofunny I totally agree with you. High expectations are key. And to get where you want to go is all about fostering confidence, and independence. Gradually, with support, and in tune with the individual child. You sound great!

I have a dd with a statement who is very able, has always been academically able she has a statement and has had one since she was three years old. LA's would like you to believe that only children who are struggling spectacularly academically have statements , it puts parents off applying, but it's simply not true.