TO THINK THAT INSTEAD OF SETTING BY ABILITY...

[icymaiden]

.. schools should set by behaviour.At least in the first instance so that all the kids who can't or won't behave , can be in a class together, so that everyone else can achieve their best.Once you have separated that lot out, then the remainder could still be set by ability

What a horrible, horrible idea.

What about teaching your child to ignore any distractions and some tolerance for those who don't find being in school all that easy. Mind you from your OP you never learned much about tolerance yourself.

Lol, I actually nodded along with the OP. As a parent of quiet and well behaved kids (at school at least ) I used to get really pissed off with their education being disrupted by the 'naughty kids'

My kids were often put next to the naughty kids as they didn't rise to the naughtyness. I am not presuming this, I know it as I have frequently been told this by teachers err, okaaaay so my kids good behaviour is rewarded by them having to sit with the most disruptive kids.

I've no problem with everyone taking turns to sit with everyone but not singling out my kids to take extra turns sitting next to the naughty kids.

Ohh, and don't get me started on group punishments.

OP YABU but I secretly wish you weren't

I actually use 'screens' in my classroom although we call them 'At Work Folders'. I got the idea from here. I adapted it so the inside pages have plastic sleeves that they can slot word or vocabulary sheets, or inspiration pictures, whatever they want to use for what they are working on. Students know to respect someone using their folder as not to be disturbed. It also works well during exam times to know that no one is sneaking peeks at their neighbour!

I propose the following sets

Stressed overachievers
Breeze through and do well without appearing to work
Children of "those" parents
Children somewhere in the middle
Children who use their intellect to avoid work because of SEN struggles (DS2 would be in this one)
Children who can't possibly want to acheive because they aren't Middle Class enough.

Any other stereotypes I've missed!

I agree with elephant. My dd gets hacked off with the kids who have picked art GCSE as a soft option. She doesn't get any teaching time, as the teacher is dealing with bad behaviour. Last term the teacher had to lock herself in the cupboard to get away from them.

As a retired teacher I ask : who will teach/ attempt to teach this class - I would hand in notice rather than go through that.
Well behaved moderate some of the poor behaviour.
Children with special needs do get put into smaller separate classes but bright naughties just need firm handling.
Give teachers back some "teeth" to offer discouragement to poor behaviour.

Or teachers could just learn to control their classrooms. It's not like they went to school for this or anything...

Midnight that's a great idea, it would have really worked for DS's last year, he was so distracted by everything and everyone he actually asked to be put into isolation for the day!
I would second cubicles of some sort for everybody, adaptable for group work and class discussions but enough privacy for uninterrupted solo work.

I'm guessing you would be in the shouty class OP.

Ffs stop the block capitals

Dd's primary school took all the children in County on managed moves who had been excluded from at least one other school previously. OFSTED rated behaviour there outstanding and it really was,. The children weren't unmanageable (there were two previously excluded pupils (one from three schools) in her class) they just hadn't been managed well previously I don't think.There were no exclusions at dd's school and very few incidents of bad behaviour.
Rather than blaming the children you should be raising concerns about how the school are managing the children with behavioural needs.

Can't we have streaming throughout life?

I'd like pavements for people who don't litter and who clean up after their dogs.

I'd like supermarket checkouts for people who don't have their payment method ready.

I'd like a section of Mumsnet where we can channel all the people who don't RTFT. And who post thread-titles in all-caps.

By Y9 I really don't care if other people's DCs learn anything or not.

The time the drama, maths and art teachers spent, even at GCSE level chasing pupils who didn't want to do any work was ridiculous.

I'm all for giving more, not less support for DCs, who have SN or find things difficult for academic or personal reasons, but sometimes pupils just don't seem to want to engage for no reason at all.

DD2 and art/craft based subjects is a running war, she's the sort of academic child who only tries at things she's good at. She isn't good at messing, trying ideas and accepting good enough. She can for maths HW, but not art.

She knows she can't produce the idea in her head so she just doesn't bother at all.

Drama managed to loose some of the worst, taking it as a soft option, pupils, but art still had people prepared to stare at a blank sheet of paper for a whole 5hr exam.

I wonder if ICY is coming from the perspective of having seen children who are willing and trying to learn being stuck in a bottom set with lots of disruptive and aggressive children. My friend's daughter was in this position and it was terrible for her.

I was clearly not talking about 'young children' as primary schools don't generally set .
But at secondary school, why don't the rights of the 'law abiding' majority trump the rights of the disruptive minority?
My Dsis teaches bottom set at one of the roughest schools in the country.She says it is heartbreaking for the 3 or 4 who want to learn, being contained in what is essentially a zoo.

'Can't we have streaming throughout life?'

I think you will find that we do.No riff raff can afford to live here

Part of me agrees with you OP, I have dyslexia and was put in the bottom set as a result and the constant disruptions made learning impossible for me, to those saying setting by behaviour would be writing the bottom set of, I would respond with - the bottom set are already written of in many schools and the majority of poorly behaved kids are already in that set. Once you are in it there is usually no escape.

Of course it's not actually workable but what we have now in many schools is not exactly ideal either.

Is this a joke?

and what about people such as my son and my dd. They have AS with accompanying tics, some verbal. Ds also has physical tourettes. He's at university now studying lit. What would you have done with this high achieving but on occasion noisy pupil?

My ds was disruptive because he was bored rigid, he's still bored rigid doing a Masters degree but amuses himself quietly on his iphone now during lectures Had the school recognised just how able he was and allowed him to explore his interests at his own level instead of holding him back in the top set then the teachers and other pupils lives would have been far easier. Instead they were teaching to get the best GCSE results which didn't allow for any sort of differentiation IME.

OP isn't that them down to the teacher (with the backing of the school) to find a way to engage disruptive children and to find an appropriate and affective way to discipline them?
You can't just pat them on the head and say 'go play while the better children do the work', there had to be some way of engaging these kids so they can see some hope.

ah the old chestnut, they are too bright to behave!
Except many bright children can and do behave or sit an daydream, they don' feel the need to annoy everyone else.
sadly being bored sometimes is a part of life that every special little snowflake will have to learn to endure

Fab idea op.

Stick the sexually abused kids in with the ones who have just lost a parent to cancer and the ones with dad in prison. Who gives a shit about their education? As long as you little darlings have the best eh?

This attitude really upsets me.

dawndonna Why would they be the only high achieving ones in the 'naughty' set.Several posters say their little snowflakes are disruptive because they are too bright, so your dc would have been in good company.