To not work over my contracted hours

[ILovePud]

I posted similar in a response to another thread but I was probably going off at a bit of a tangent so I'm starting a new thread as I'm interested in other's opinions. I don't work over the hours I am paid for, I hate the culture of expectation that people work over their hours. I think working longer hours perpetuates the myths that the amount of work expected to be done can be done within the hours allocated for it (by some employers at least) and I think it disadvantages those with caring commitments. I also think working longer hours than I am contracted to do would put those whom I manage under pressure to do the same. I genuinely work as hard as I can when I am in work and think that's enough. If there is a real emergency then I will stay late but I claim the time back. What do others think?

ShadowStar

Staff who were in the office for less than contracted hours (even just 5 mins a day most weeks) got low scores.

In my first job (one of the ones with flexi listed above), You could be 10 hours in credit or 7 hours in debit. One person I knew was 7 hours in debit every month and this was referred to in one of his appraisals with the suggestion that it would hamper his promotion prospects.

His reasoning was that all he was doing was carrying over that same 7 hours of debit each month whereas someone with 10 hours credit was carrying over the same 10 hours credit - so it wasn't as if every month he was clocking up an additional 7 hours debit and someone else was working an additional 10 hours every month - they were both woking the same hours overall. Same as someone who continually broke even. It could have just meant that in 1 or 2 weeks of their entire employment one had worked more hours and one had worked less and they worked the same hours forever going forwards.

I had some sympathy for him but I also thought he was daft not to pick up on the cues and just get himself into credit. But yes, some workplaces will use this as a measure when it comes to things like redundancies/promotion so forewarned is forearmed

Well salaried you can be expected to put in whatever hours and be paid the same

Wages you are paid per hour, so the more you do the more they pay you

Except some salaried jobs you can get paid overtime but most expect more hours from you for free, it's usually in your contract

But yanbu!!

I'm salaried, but I can claim OT if agreed in advance for weekend work (usually out of hours planned server upgrades), and I can usually claim TOIL if I have to work more than an hour for on-call. But if I were sat at my desk on a Thursday and needed to finish a piece of work by the end of the day, that's just one of those things.

Chip on my shoulder about working extra hours aside, I'm genuinely curious as to how people manage the logistics of it. I'm assuming (perhaps erroneously) that most posters on MN have dependent children. I don't know how I'd manage to put in the kind of extra hours that some posters have talked about. Do you sort out extra childcare as routine so you've got that buffer if you need to work late? As I said when there's a genuine emergency I will work late but then I have to pull in favours from other people to get the kids for me and you can only do that so often. Likewise I can only just about keep on top of the various things it takes to keep a house and family running, I can't imagine settling down to do several hours work once I've got the kids to bed, I'm completely knackered!

No, I have after school club until 5.45 pm at the latest so need to be at school by then. I can't stay late spontaneously - only when planned & my mum's shifts fall that way.

I know quite a few people at work refuse to be contacted between say 17:30 & 19:00 and block the time out in their diaries, but will then take calls from the US at home in the evening.

It depends a lot on the sort of organisation you work for and the type of work you do as what sort of flexibility there can be; you can't decide to teach a class of children at 19:00 because that fits in better with getting the car MOTed and going to the dentist, but it may well fit with general office work.

No YANBU at all. It is those brown nosers who do work long over their contracted hours who make a rod for your back so to speak. If a few are prepared to do it then employers begin to expect everyone to do it and it goes from being seen as something above and beyond the call of duty that is occasionally done, to being seen as expected and people actually getting negative consequences for not doing it ( not sure how that would stand up at an employment tribunal though).

That was going to be my question ILovePud I worked to hours because I had to get back for childcare (DH contracted hours are something 48hr a week so he can't do any pickup/drop off).

I don't think I have ever had a job with contracted hours that it would be possible to stick to but I don't have a problem with that. There has always been give and take on both sides.

I believe that on the odd occasion it is fine to have to work an extra hour or two to complete a job in order to reach a deadline but in the long term it is usually harmful. I have seen several friends and former colleagues becoming ill from stress due to overdoing things and having to stop work completely.

Nobody ever wishes they spent more time at work on their deathbed. YANBU.

I agree with accessorizequeen - I don't work for a private company so I am not putting extra money in anyone's pocket. And it is for the satisfaction of knowing that I do a good job that I don't mind putting in extra hours, I hate leaving work undone and, without outing what I do, there is no one else who could do it where I work. And I only work part time so I still have plenty of 'free' time to do what I want to do.

Fortunately I don't have childcare issues so that is not a consideration .

I used to work in a lab and ended up doing loads of extra hours when experiments etc took a long time, went wrong etc. Now my research is more office based, but the fact that I am a chief investigator means that I have a lot of responsibilities for delivering research that the NHS has paid for - and so I have to put the hours in. On top of that there are teaching commitments, admin, other things.

What does disturb me is that some people seem to think that it is ok that public sector workers are routinely working a lot of hours for the mere reason that they are funded by the public/tax payer. Most public sector jobs are poorly paid, high pressured, dealing with complex situations and very stressful. These workers don't get paid overtime and whilst TOIL can be taken, sometimes it's not feasible because the organisation is understaffed (inc NHS management!!) and the workload has not reduced and, in fact, has increased.

I think people need to go into a job with their eyes open. If you only want to work contracted hours, then chose a job where this is an option and don't do something like eg lab work, where this is a virtual impossibility. There are a lot of career options available and flexible working is now becoming more accepted, so it is daft to say that if you want a "career" you need to routinely work over your hours. Clock watching and competitive over-working are just as annoying as the people who have their coats on and are poised at the office door at 4.58.

Bwahaha. When I was a teacher (80% timetable) I was contracted for 32 hours a week afair (4 x 8 hour days) with not even time to pee let alone eat anything or facebook (hahahahaha), plus another 3-4 a day on the other stuff, plus another good 8 hour day every weekend.

You would be an incredibly shit teacher if you only worked your contracted hours. I once worked out that I earned significantly less per hour than my 15 yo pupils stacking shelves on a Saturday.

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone sent an e-mail to their managers after returning to work from mat leave saying that they cannot do regular overtime anymore and can mainly work contracted hours only due to their childcare responsibilities. Is it possible to be dismissed on the basis of such e-mail or are employers obliged to try and make your work fit only in your contracted hours? I work in an environment where one's job can simply not be done within the contracted hours and regular overtime is the norm so I am also wondering what are the employer's obligation regarding no overloading of an employee's day. thanks

I'm assuming then, OP, that you just as rigidly refuse to leave early to go to a school play or any other of the myriad of reasons why parents need to have some flexibility in their working life. If you give none, I hope you expect none in return.

Might this also impact on your promotion prospects?

What could you do other than (justifiably) having a moan on mumsnet? Make sure you are in a union for a start. So many have the approach of "some jobs can't be done in 40 hours" (or whatever). If the job can't be done by one person in those hours, then it needs to be done by more people. We are all so scared for our jobs these days it is easy to be taken advantage of. There is safety in numbers, if you are the only one trying to stick to your contract you would feel very vulnerable.

Some nonsense written about teachers here, holidays (bar the minimum) are unpaid and have no relationship with working hours.

Here teachers have a 35 hour working week, very few stick to that but even if it encourages staff to work 45 hours rather than 55+ then that's a good thing. A teacher working the expected hours with the right amount of classes and support could be excellent there is no necessary correlation between exhaustion and good performance.

I regularly work over contracted hours in the public sector. I have a career and am well paid but the workload is huge (and has historically always been) and there are often days when there is just no option of leaving on time so I have always had to have backup childcare arrangements in place. It's not a job for the faint hearted but has it's rewards and I did know what I was getting into..

It has been getting worse recently as cuts kick in but the leave allocation is generous and there is a bit of flexibility for school events etc so I think you have to take the rough with the smooth.

If I was paid £7 an hour I don't think I would be staying much after 5 though

Frequently work upwards of 60 hours a week as a hotel manager. No paid overtime, fairly shit pay and never a chance to use up lieu time (has to be taken in the same month you earn it). Unfortunately some businesses don't close, and 'needs of the business' trumps all.

Bring back the unions!

I understand what it is to be enthusiastic about a job and not care about the hours you put in. But, apart from the fact that most people posting here who are working extra hours are doing so more out of a need to keep their jobs, the dreadful things is that this all has a terribly adverse effect on mothers and children. The children get to spend a lot less time with their parents and conscentious and/or mothers unable to afford childcare are penalised because they can't/won't work these ridiculous extra hours.

This is a feminist issue!

Like most teachers, I work outside school hours, though I'd rather not.

What I won't do is be told to do it, e.g. accept a deadline that implies I work over weekend or holiday. I say I have other commitments.I do not say what these commitments are.

Whenever I have set deadlines for other staff in any management role I've had, I set ones that do not assume weekend or holiday work, or are short notice when they don't need to be. I also tell staff that that is what I am doing, and why.

Time and again in teaching I see unreasonable deadlines/timescales set by procrastinators/ fuckwits/workaholics. Fuck 'em.

Has it cost me promotion? Not a bit of it.

Mandy said?But I think rightly or wrongly that employers expect more of employees now and certainly in my profession (law) you simply wouldn't be able to meet your targets / do what was expected if you adhered to contractual hours. So if you left at 5.30pm on the dot, you'd never be promoted, wouldn't be well thought of etc. You probably wouldn't be seen as a team player.

This is why the majority of law entrants are women but they only make up a quarter of partners. Targets for billable work which seems to be the only measure cared about are absurdly high and can only be met if you regularly work beyond office hours. That's not even talking about the client events you are expected to go to. It has a hugely unfair impact on those with caring responsibilities. Which is mainly women.

Salary should make a difference. If you earn 150k with potential for bonus and future increased income then I'm less concerned for people. They can afford nannies or a SAHP. For people slogging away on 30 odd grand who can't afford those things and have no choice but to be back for after school club which finishes at 5.30 then the long hours culture is more damaging.

If you're routinely working over your hours then

• you're crap at your job
• your manager is crap at his/her job
• there is too much work and your employer needs to recruit.

I'm in a fairly senior professional role and while I work the hours necessary at busy times of year, the rest of the time I just work the regular hours I am paid for. Fortunately I work for a company where presenteeism isn't a thing.

My department has some issues with workload right now but instead of expecting people to sacrifice their family life and free time we are looking at solutions.

Fairyliz Mon 15-Sep-14 20:52:03
Well I work in a primary school office. If you don't turn up on time to pick up your kids shall I just leave them hanging around the school gates waiting for you, after all I'm only paid until 3.30? (I usually stay until about 5.30 carrying out all of the admi I couldn't do whilst looking after sick kids sent into school)

blimy <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Sad" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/sad-q5SIe0Cq.png"> here these children get sent over to the OSH [out of school care] and the parents have to pay to pick them up. It solved a lot of what you put up with

I work part time, most weeks management try and make me work at least one or two shifts extra. I wouldn't mind but they're not asking they're telling. I have gotten very strong at saying no. I don't care if it ruins my chances of promotion or progression right now. I have a 4 year old and a one year old, right now family comes first. Once they're both in school this will chance, but my children are only little once. I have decades of my working life left to put extra in.