To not work over my contracted hours

[ILovePud]

I posted similar in a response to another thread but I was probably going off at a bit of a tangent so I'm starting a new thread as I'm interested in other's opinions. I don't work over the hours I am paid for, I hate the culture of expectation that people work over their hours. I think working longer hours perpetuates the myths that the amount of work expected to be done can be done within the hours allocated for it (by some employers at least) and I think it disadvantages those with caring commitments. I also think working longer hours than I am contracted to do would put those whom I manage under pressure to do the same. I genuinely work as hard as I can when I am in work and think that's enough. If there is a real emergency then I will stay late but I claim the time back. What do others think?

YANBU

I am a manager and I would be far more likely to promote someone who can get their work done in their scheduled hours than someone who had to spend loads more time to get the job done. I would just think they were struggling/inefficient/wasting time on facebook when they should be working.

If my staff work extra hours I pay them for it. I would think anyone who didn't claim extra was a bit stupid to be honest and they would go down in my estimation.

If there is something that needs doing urgently I will ask for extra hours to be put in and pay accordingly. I trust my staff so that if they tell me xyz happened and I had to stay late I believe them and I pay them.

Dh has worked for same company more than 10 years and seen redundancies all done by head office and never taking into account staff overtime so now we have a young family he goes against the office culture and takes a lunch break where he comes and has lunch with me as we live close by, and leaves fairly promptly. Occasionally he has to work late if something happens and that's the nature of his job - we both accept that. However he won't work late for no reason. 2 weeks ago his boss tried to dump a load of urgent work on dh at 5.25pm. Dh should finish at 5pm so Dh said no I'm going home. (There's a late shift so they could do the work but dh is better than the guy on late shift so his boss prefers him to do things). luckily dh has a back bone.

YANBU.
I work to live not live to work.

I work a shit load of hours overtime due to the nature of my job. I get TOIL back for hours worked. If an emergency comes in I can't go home. It depends on the job though. If I worked set hours no way would I work on/start early if I wasn't paid or got time back.

I tend to agree with the op in principle, I think the expectation that people will do unpaid overtime is wrong, bad management as the job clearly can't be done in the stated hours, and it means that employees end up treating their employers as a charity, as they are donating their time for nothing. And none of my employers have ever been a charity, that's for damn sure.

Every so often if there's a deadline to be met, or to help a colleague out - fine. As a regular thing - no.

hampton - but there are industries where you just cannot meet the expectations by just working your 'paid hours' - where I work there is no opportunity to do personal stuff/facebook etc - we don't even take proper breaks to eat or go to the toilet - that's just the way it is and any complaints are answered with 'there are plenty of people who would like your job' (which sadly is true - I know how many applied for the job I was offered).

And yes, I am a Manager myself .

I left a horrid job where I was expected to do lots of unpaid overtime for the joy of it! Not because it was necessary but because my boss wanted to impress her bosses with the speedy delivery of work and so gave me impossible to fulfil (in normal work hours), arbitrary deadlines. I had negotiated altered hours years before but the new Director felt it more suitable that I work stupid hours if I wanted to 'get ahead'. I chose to go instead. I now work VERY hard for my new employers, very hard indeed but when I need to do something for the kids or need to collect them, I do so. Both parties seem to understand the need for flexibility and we both, thus far, have delivered.

Countess has summed it up nicely - if you're in a job where you feel valued and looked after, you are more likely to want to go the extra mile if you know it is noticed and appreciated...
But sadly those jobs seem to be disappearing now.

I'm a teacher, and hilariously my contracted hours (FT) are 32.5 hours a week, or 9-3:30. I couldn't possibly manage on those hours and probably do 50% more just to get by. The job could take more if I allowed it to, but with two young DCs I'm unable to and wouldn't if I could.

Oh and I'm there 8.5 hours a day and don't take breaks. I work another 7 hours per week at home.

I am a ta in a primary school. I am contracted 9-3 but am pretty much always in class by 8.40 and leave around 3.30 most days. I have 2 dc's at the school and two days a week they do after school sports activities run by outside coaches but on the school premises. On those days I invariably carry on with stuff until they finish at 4.15. I don't have to do it but I find it beneficial to be in class early so I can catch up with the teacher and discuss the days plan. I also use the time after school finishes to put up displays so that my time can be used in helping the children in class during the day. The other ta's all finish on the dot at 3 unless they are being paid overtime to oversee an after school club. I like my job and that's why I do it and I hope that at appraisal time it will not have gone un noticed by the senior management team and I will get a pay rise. In the next few weeks all ta's will be given objectives for the coming year which will directly influence the ability to get a pay rise next year. I am the only one who is ok with this as I come from a background where it was not automatic to move up the pay scales just by virtue of completing another years service. I have always had objectives and needed to provide evidence to back it up at appraisal time so as far as I am concerned it's all good.

Same here Lapsed. I'm in school at 7:30, and leave around 5:30· I do around 2 hours work after supper every day, more at weekends.

There is a fine balance between showing willing and being a doormat. IME those who always stay late and do more than required are not always respected for it. Strange but true. Some of the most respected people at my place are those who can say no: to unrealistic customers; to themselves; even to their bosses' unrealistic demands.

Don't count on the appraisal being your reward for sacrificing your own time. It's usually those who succesfully convey they're too busy and important to stay late that get the kudos. Sadly.

I think it builds good will - I do at least hours extra a week - out of unused lunch time and 30-50 mins extra work (lucky dfiance works 7-3 so he does pick up ) but if I need a longer lunch or to go early the odd day then it's ok by my manager as she knows I put in the hours already. I. Don't stay for the sake of it - we have loads on so every little helps and sometimes you can get more done when you are less pecked as people leave - sometimes I get so many questions and queries and all the investigation behind it that i get more of own work done after 5 - we are understaffed and taking on 2 new people so it is hectic !

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, it's made for interesting reading. My question was just motivated by curiosity, I'm not getting any grief at work and, by and large, meet all my targets. I like my job and derive a great deal of satisfaction from it but I my life outside work is also very important to me. That's not a veiled dig at anyone who wants to/ has to/feels obliged to work unpaid overtime though.

Well, there are those who are defined by their careers and those who are not. I spent my twenties and early thirties working well over my contracted hours because I was ambitious and wanted to succeed in a competitive and dynamic industry. (IT in the finance sector). I thrived on it - it was varied, well paid and promotion meant significant pay rises. As a graduate at a global IT company back in the 90's, 1/3 of the graduate intake in my year/department didn't survive their 6 mth probationary period. The cull was ruthless and one factor was time watching! Another one lied about their degree classification and their failure to produce the required documentation (they didn't achieve the minimum 2:1 they said they did!).

Admittedly, I suffered from some burnout and jumped ship to another company for a better work life balance. A particularly brutal 2 months of 16 hour days and working weekends and bank holidays before a go-live date Alongside a workaholic project manager made me look for an escape! A promotion and a hefty pay rise was no longer compensation enough and this was still life before children! Now in my 40's, I work to live rather than live to work.

I read somewhere that in Sweden people who always stay late are viewed with suspicion rather than admiration, and are presumed to be either extremely inefficient or up to something on the side...

If you meet your targets and don't need to work overtime then why would you? It's just that done jobs simply don't work like that. You can flex your muscle on MN and be indignant or self righteous but IRL you have to get on with it.

Sadly I think a lot of women work more 'to build goodwill' so they can dash off for childcare emergencies. It shouldn't be like that.

I got to a meeting at 8am this morning, leaving home at 7am. It's now 10.15pm and I'm on the train home, having left at 10pm.

I probably shouldn't read this thread!

I have a high pressure career and am the senior manager (team left at 7pm) If I didn't stay, then my job wouldn't get done. I work to very specific deadlines and will do these hours for the next 10 days, weekend included.

It is what it is in my field.

It obviously depends what the job is and how much you get paid.

However , those people who refuse to do anything outside of contracted hours and put their OOO on at 17.01 with 'my core working hours are 9.00 to 17.00. You have contacted me outside of these hours blah blah blah' are total twats.

YANBU.

That said, I have a colleague who takes this to the extreme (imo) and starts and leaves absolutely on the dot. They also do the same with their lunch and tea breaks. We are a small friendly team so it does feel quite odd and very clock-watchy. Especially as walking out of the door when the clock says 5.30 must mean that they have actually stopped work and closed down/logged off before the working day is over.

In haulage, the assumption is that you can do up to 15 hours from clock-on, and if your day is planned for that time, you do it.

I'm luckier in that most of my days are planned at 8 hours, because agency hourly rates are massive. However, today I got a message to add another 2 calls which added 3 hours to the day. There was no question of not doing them.

The only saving grace is that we are not exempt from the Working Time Directive, so they try and keep us to an average of 48 hours pw, with a permitted maximum of 60. That's not attendance, as waiting time doesn't count.

I read somewhere that in Sweden people who always stay late are viewed with suspicion rather than admiration, and are presumed to be either extremely inefficient or up to something on the side...

I have heard that too.

Yanbu. I hardly ever work over my hours unless there is some sort of emergency and even then I get to choose whether to take it as toil or extra money. I hate the work culture of being expected to stay in and do extra hours. I refuse to work for nothing even in a professional salaried role.

I work in the NHS and rarely work overtime, if I do for some reason I claim it back. Not for 15-20 mins, of course - eg if I am late in because I got stuck behind a tractor then I wouldn't expect to be told off, so equally if I take 10 mins extra finishing notes at the end of the day then I wouldn't expect to claim for that. Give and take. But eg 2 hours extra for a training course, damn right I take it back.

It does depend on where you work, but doing more than you need to just perpetuates being overworked - the managers don't need to hire another person as you are doing it. For free.

If you are working as hard as you can, and the work can't be done - then you can't do it. Simple as that. If you all leave work undone, then people will realise you need more staff. (Not that it means you'll get any of course!)