to get angry about benefit cuts not cheats

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have been volunteering at the CAB for the last few months - a very rewarding interesting experience and informative about the level of hidden poverty in Britain.

man dies after benefits cut

We get calls from people regularly who are have had their benefits suspended for a minor issue - often related to not getting to interviews (a rural area with very poor and expensive public transport) - they have no food and in one case recently the emergency food parcel was no use as it was all food that needed to be heated/ cooked and the individual had no money for the electricity meter. Vulnerable people who have just left an abusive relationship and have no idea how to access the benefits they are entitled to, people with learning difficulties stressed and depressed as they struggle to understand the complex benefits system. These are people coming in or ringing the CAB office daily.

This makes me angry and so I find it hard to raise the same level of ire for the benefit cheats - though I suppose I should - it is not the benefit cheats that are maintaining the cycle of poverty and low expectations.

YANBU. I've read a few of those. It makes me sadder that they aren't headline news.

YADNBU. It is an absolute disgrace and a stain on society that so many of the most vulnerable are reliant on foodbanks - and as you say these are often not entirely helpful. To be honest I don't know why there isn't rioting on the streets over this. It makes me so angry.

YANBU its heartbreaking that in 2014 there is a great need for food banks.

My dds school send out letters for donations for a food bank on a regular basis.

I get a bit annoyed about benefits cheats because if people hadn't cheated the system it might not have created the situation we have now where it is so hard to get ESA, particularly for less obvious/well understood illnesses like ME, and mental health problems like I'm your example. It's not exactly the cuts that bothers me, but the complete lack of understanding and the fact that it's so hard to get anything unless you meet certain very precise criteria that aren't applicable in every case. I haven't even got a date for my atos assessment yet though, and I've been in the assessment phase for 3 1/2 months...

So are you saying that the benefits payments themselves aren't enough?

Yanbu.
Our local job centre is in a shopping centre which also contains offices and council buildings above. The local food bank have been refused permission to use any of the empty offices, and have had to instead accept space in an industrial estate a two mile walk away. So anyone referred by the job centre has to walk there and then get home with their food, and they will be at least two miles away from a bus route.
A local family left without benefits due to the job centre's error were using foodbank services for 11 weeks. It should never take that long to fix errors, it undermines everything the welfare state stands for to leave people destitute.

I think its scary as hell that the jobcentre (or whoever has the power) can just sanction your money without any thought for how you are going to eat ect

A few years ago I was on income support after loosing my job. My money got sanctioned because I hadnt send back a form I was supposed to fill in, but I hadnt recived the form the post man posted it at the wrong adress and the lady forgot to re post it to me. The jobcentre didnt care that I was sat there in tears panicking about what I was going to do. Such a horrible feeling.

Im working now but I always make sure I stock up on food ect just incase as I know only to well these things so easily happen. Never want to go through that again.

soul

She's clearly talking about sanctions as well as people struggling to know what they can claim or how

Tell me about it .I deal with this every day and its so depressing as there is no way past the system once something has gone wrong.

What astounds me is that there is no outcry about the length of time it takes to get though on the phone. 45mins is about average and it just eats mobile phone credit .People are having to borrow money to buy credit just so they can call about their benefit not being paid.

I suspect that this is another way to stop paying people. They are making it deliberately difficult to follow the process .

The people I feel really sorry for though are the middle aged men who have no family and few friends.They cant or wont ask for help and will simply wait until something happens .Often though that something is their benefit being stopped altogether. And it takes a huge amount of effort to get it back -but by then there is such a huge build up of arrears for housing etc that they can never recover.

In some circumstances the amount of benefits are not enough, but the wider problem seems to be the delay in paying them and the ridiculous sanctions that are applied.

Yes, that's probably a bit more accurate than what i said MrsDeVere.

Some people do fiddle their benefits, and that is wrong. But I think it is far more important to make sure that the people who need benefits are getting what they need.

I am proud of living in a country that supports those who need it, and those more vulnerable in society.

YANBU

I agree with everything you have said around lots of benefits cuts, the system is crap and puts some people into desperate circumstances, the case you detailed was harrowing and, whilst an extreme example, sadly not an isolated one. However I think people who cheat the benefits system are pretty low, it makes it harder for genuine claimants and takes money out of the system when it is so desperately needed for other people.

Yanbu can someone explain to me how if income support/ job seekers is calculated at the legal minion amount of money someone can live on , how then can sanctions be legal?

Germophobia same here. totally agree.

yes angry with cuts (and mps getting pay rise and more expenses) but too many cheats out there milking the system, somehow getting away with it, making it harder for genuine claimants, and giving genuine needy a bad name.

I have read accounts of people being told they would be sanctioned for not attending a Job Centre appointment, when the reason they wanted to reschedule the appointment was so they could attend a job interview!! If true, this is madness.

soon that's a very good point you make

SDT it is true unfortunately

The current government like to point the finger of blame for any problems the country has at poor people, disabled people, people in low paid jobs etc who need benefits in order to live, in order to distract people while they fuck up even more of the country.

I posted this on another thread just now, but it seems relevant here, sadly.

I hesitate to mention this but whilst talking about incompetent fuckwittery, I applied for PIP in April, was told I would get an assessment within 12 weeks and decision within 21 to 26 weeks, have heard NOTHING. Chased a couple of times and last week was told it will probably be 34 weeks in total now before a decision. I had to stop working in June. I can't face another fight with DWP for any other benefits at the same time as this so DH is looking for a second job. It just drags you down so much.

It is a bit of a minefield though we have never had to claim benefits but its looking like we. might have too ds2 has low functioning ASD and work (NHS) are not being at all flexible butthe department of work and pensions seems so disjointed I,m not at all clear what we might be entitled too!

The sanctions are insane.
Didn't fill out a form, they sanction you. Doesn't matter that you did send it back and they lost it, that's your fault. Doesn't matter you didn't receive the form. Doesn't matter that the form had to be back by x date, but the form was sent to you after that date.

Cannot attend the JC because of a job interview. Sanction.
They loose your paperwork or documents.. Sanction.
Cannot attend a jc appointment or an interview because you have been admitted to hospital. Sanction. Because we all know that you deliberately burst your appendix to try and cheat the system.

Cannot talk to the advisor who you have an appointment with because they are not there and there is no-one else to deal with you. You guessed it. Sanction.

I experienced all of the above when claiming. I spent more time sanctioned than getting any money. The knock on effects these ridiculous sanctions have is unreal. Housing benefit, council tax, the kids school meals.
Heard that with the universal credit it's got even crazier and sanctions if you cannot attend an interview that is scheduled during your job because you cannot get time off.

I don't think the few fraudsters have made it harder to get benefits.
I think the moral panic about millions of fraudsters, stoked by the government and the media have made it harder for people to get benefits.

You hit the nail on the head there Mrs DV. Is it even worth repeating again that the amount of benefits money fraudulently claimed is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount people are entitled to that remains unclaimed?

Just been chatting to a fellow parent (single dad) at a kids' party. They stopped all his benefits 2 weeks ago- whoops, administrative error. They still haven't been reinstated, and are refusing to backdate them, although he is going to appeal. Luckily, a relative has helped him out, so he "was able to eat yesterday".

And yes, the sanctioning people for attending job interviews is all too true- DP works with vulnerable adults and has plenty of stories.....

And on. And on. And on. Sorry, got to do some more angry faces >>