to get angry about benefit cuts not cheats

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have been volunteering at the CAB for the last few months - a very rewarding interesting experience and informative about the level of hidden poverty in Britain.

man dies after benefits cut

We get calls from people regularly who are have had their benefits suspended for a minor issue - often related to not getting to interviews (a rural area with very poor and expensive public transport) - they have no food and in one case recently the emergency food parcel was no use as it was all food that needed to be heated/ cooked and the individual had no money for the electricity meter. Vulnerable people who have just left an abusive relationship and have no idea how to access the benefits they are entitled to, people with learning difficulties stressed and depressed as they struggle to understand the complex benefits system. These are people coming in or ringing the CAB office daily.

This makes me angry and so I find it hard to raise the same level of ire for the benefit cheats - though I suppose I should - it is not the benefit cheats that are maintaining the cycle of poverty and low expectations.

I would be very interested to know figures comparing cheating and not claiming what entitled to. I'll bet it would be interesting.

I got sanctioned twice. Once for not being able to turn up to an interview the jobcentre arranged behind my back and didn't tell me about until something like an hour before hand (when I was known by them to be working) forcing me to choose between the agreed work or interview for a possible job. I was sanctioned. The second time I was doing an exam the jobcentre arranged over a hundred miles away at time of signing on!!

I'd rather a hundred benefits cheats got away with it than one person starved or froze to death because of benefit cuts and sanctions. Sadly the majority of people seem to feel differently.

Your wish is my command gamerchick

blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-qa-benefit-fraud-perspective/15796

Unclaimed benefits: £12.3 billion. Benefits "error" (presumably fuckups made by the DWP etc. because they're too busy sanctioning people to check their paperwork properly) £3.4 billion. Benefit fraud: £2.0 billion.

But let's not let the facts stand in the way of the propaganda eh? (got to do more angry faces now)

abit of topic but was just wondering what are you're commitments for volunteering at citizens advice?

I'm a chartered accountant and would really like to volunteer as i think i could really help people when they have wrong tax codes, tax demands, tax credits cuts etc but i wouldn't be able to commit to every week as i need some time to myself when i'm not working, are you able to do monthly?

The other thing people don't realise is the stress of living on benefits. Even if you're not doing anything wrong.

After so many cock-ups, I now feel sick and physically shake at the sight of a brown envelope - terrified they're saying my money to live on is being stopped, or I have to go a medical where they'll lie, or worse.

It's this constant feeling that the rug will be pulled out from under you at any moment, with awful consequences. Not being able to pay for my accessible home, not being able to pay bills, pay for the treatment the NHS won't cover, or the expense of getting to the hospital and back all the time - often in London, due to specialists locations.

It's just awful, and the stress feeds into my (physical) condition and makes it much worse.

This is all down to the paranoia for 0.5% (or 0.3%, depending on which disability benefit) may be incorrectly claiming.

In terms of cuts to benefits, I'm on ESA and DLA. I can no longer afford a carer due to cuts to my benefits. The council won't help, due to cuts there. I can't access nhs physiotherapy, I've had my four sessions, I must now pay private. I can't manage my rent due to cuts to local housing allowance and was told to use my disability living allowance which is used to pay for physiotherapy and other medical needs which I now must pay for. Previously it went to a carer but now cannot due to cuts.

There is a mistaken belief that if you need a carer they are provided for free e.g. If you cannot wash, this is incorrect. I struggle to wash properly and smell, I cannot afford a carer and face abuse about that most of the time when I go out. I've even had it when in hospital waiting for appointments.

I've even had people at CAB lay into me because I get so much money I must be able to pay without any problem - I'm not saying everyone at CAB is like that, but honestly, they should know that just because I get more than the basic JSA that doesn't mean the money isn't needed.

All of that is due to the combination of benefit, nhs and social services cuts.

Ah you star stubborn I'm going to save that

glitter I feel the same you do. Already I'm panicking about the post tomorrow after recently being sent a form to continue having ESA. I'm terrified after a friend was found fit for work after being sent for a medical - she had terminal cancer and died two weeks after being found fit for work. I have a genetic illness that will never improve only get worse yet I must fill in a form repeatedly to qualify. They know it won't improve. I feel like criminal and ashamed for claiming benefits

Yup, benefits fraud is not the biggest problem with our broken system, in financial terms or otherwise. However, 2bn is a lot and it should be addressed in addition to reducing errors and instituting fairer policies. As always, it actually shouldn't be either/or, and two wrongs don't make a right. It all needs sorting out.

God yes, the worry about the brown envelopes, letters and overpayments and reviews, I get that.

And the feeling that everyone thinks you're a "scrounger" even though I had to stop working due to my health. I would much rather be working. And DH is looking for a second job so we don't have to claim anything.

Problem is, Uncle T, that £2bn benefits fraud is the only figure we ever hear about. When did you last see a Daily Mail headline that read "SCANDAL: UNCLAIMED BENEFITS! Are you losing out on YOUR share of £12 billion?" How is the problem of under claiming being addressed?

Genuine question.

I read much of this on MN and people always say they are surprised people aren't protesting, rioting etc.

Do you think this is a view shared by wider society?

After so many cock-ups, I now feel sick and physically shake at the sight of a brown envelope - terrified they're saying my money to live on is being stopped, or I have to go a medical where they'll lie, or worse

Yes, except with me it's the green-edged envelopes from Housing Benefit. There is nothing that gives me the adrenaline rush of terror like one of those. And that is spoken as someone who is intelligent,healthy, knows her way around the system, and is in possession of a laptop and a printer, so able to write letters. In other words, I'm one of the claimants more able to take the system on. And I'm still scared.....

Sanctions are not new. I claimed income support for a year after I had ds and there was a hold up as they were waiting for my P45. I lived off biscuits for a month, not helpful if you're breastfeeding. My parents used to send me little bits of money so that I could buy nappies (and biscuits).

Ladysybil, that's a bit different to a sanction.

A sanction is what happens when they have decided you are entitled to the money but you have pissed them off so they take it away for a set amount of time (can be up to 3 years on UC).
Whilst they stop your money they still expect you to sign on,follow instructions and attend there meetings

That's an interesting question tick, no I don't think the views expressed on this thread are representative of wider society. I wonder if that is because MNers tend to be more liberal or whether there are certain topics that people just don't want to express the opposing point of view on because they'll get flamed. Communities establish their own norms and people who disagree either keep quiet or decide it's not for them (and perhaps post on the Daily Mail message boards instead). It's like people don't often admit to voting Tory and yet they're in power! It interests me that some topics attract a lot of debate and different opinions and others don't.

I think about that question a lot, tick. And it is an interesting one. I think that government-driven media propaganda (and, to be honest, its influence on wider social attitudes and culture- remember Little Britain? I used to think Vicky Pollard was funny at the time- I don't now ) has succeeded in convincing the majority of the population that people on benefits are somehow "other"- a species apart, as opposed to absolutely normal people who have fallen into need in some way. Hence, they can be derided and mocked. It's acceptable to slag off benefits claimants- because they're not you! And, if you believe that hard enough, it'll never BE you!

Op

You need to be annoyed with both, the two are separate issues.
Cheating the system is wrong and you could argue us stealing money from people who need it the most.

If you are working why would you be claiming benefits for which you need to attend an interview at the job centre?

Interesting article on this question here:

mindinflux.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/disability-and-propaganda/

It basically compares Nazi propaganda towards the disabled to the stuff our present Government is coming out with. It makes it all too clear how very, very easy it is to dehumanise vulnerable groups in our society, so that the "mainstream" loses all sympathy for them......and what that can lead to.

But I have certainly heard people complain about those claiming benefits years ago; I'm not convinced it is anything new.

I earn just above the minimum wage and am not entitled to anything and it does grate that I see many living an identical and in some cases better lifestyle than me.

I can't help that and I wonder if those who argue otherwise are arguing from a privileged position far above us both those on the minimum wage, and those claiming benefits.

It's easy to have lofty ideals when you aren't struggling at 6:30 in the morning for less than £7 an hour.

I'd be surprised if you were comparing like with like though tick. For a start, if you're on minimum wage and not entitled to any benefits you must not have dependent children. (by the way, have you checked you're not entitled to Working Tax Credit/ Housing Benefit?). A similar single unemployed person would not be living the life of Riley, by any means.

But why are you getting angry with people on benefits? If they all starved, it wouldn't mean you'd earn any more! Why not get angry with the system that decides that it's legal to pay you such a pittance when living costs are going through the roof?

we have been off jsa for almost three months we still don't know if the job will "go permanent" i live in utter terror of it not and being back on benefits facing the horror of applying for 14 jobs a week plus speculative letters etc it sounds simple but its really not in our area there are not a lot of jobs to go around there was one job which had over 2000 applicants on the day the job went "live"

the other thing is of course people don't know how to work the system if you get sanctioned the jobcentre tell housing benefit you're no longer entitled to their benefit who automatically stop the housing benefit which panics people more because they are going to lose their home BUT what many people don't know is you can still get the housing benefit you just have to tell them of your change in circumstances and they re assess you on zero income so you still get your housing benefit then you apply for the emergency weekly payment you will get that quickly if you have no money in the bank

but they never tell you that you are entitled to it so you don't know and it takes weeks to get into the CAB around here so they struggle more and kill themselves and starve and its hideous and im terrified im going back on the dole

No Y.M.D.N.B.U.
I have words about this lots of them, but they wont be nice and I'll be here all night saying what I want to say, but I bet hardened criminals are still eating in jail, and food banks in the 21st century don't get me started on that one. of course it's lovely that people donate and help out but if our brave soldiers that fought in the war knew that people were relying on food banks to eat they'd turn in their graves.
I was only a child when Margaret Thatcher was in power now I didn't like her when she was alive so I'm not going to start liking her now she's dead but what I do remember of her she was not as bad as this thing that's in power now.
Also as another poster said surely benefit sanctions are illegal. Perhaps it's about time now the powers that be were reported to Human rights.
This poor poor man and his family.

Oh, I'm not angry stubborn :) I'm just not massively sympathetic.

No dependent children - but then I'd be a lot better off if I did. So really, it's not in any way encouraging people not to have babies they can't afford - the opposite, in fact.

But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to understand how galling it is, to know some people are tucked up in bed in homes nicer than mine, without the stresses and expenses of daily work, and not actually earning a huge amount more than them.

It is futile to be angry about it and I am not - but it does grate.