To think its ok to tell voters that businesses will move south if its a yes?

[Loopylala7]

If these businesses do intend to shift south of the border if its a yes, shouldn't the voters know this is a possible outcome? Why is it considered unfair for this information to be out? Can somebody please explain? Am I being a bit dense?

Daughter have you been to any of the Eastern Block countries before they joined EU? Do you know how much money EU pomps in every year to fund insfrastructure, education, SMEs? And even with all that somehow you have millions of their citizens leaving these eldorados. Have you been to Czech republic and Slovakia? Separated well over 20 years ago, was supposed to be sooo great, go and see for yourself...
Have you thought what is going to happen to families separated by the vote? What will happen to Scots living in England? Would they need a visa to live and work here? Or would they be deported to the country they had no say about? And what about English people in Scotland? What about EU nationals? Scots living in EU/ US?
Even DPs dad who would have been the first running with a sword killing English is going to vote no, cause he can't see Salmond plan for independence working.

If they vote no it will go the way the English want it to, like it has for the past 300 years.

Clearly that isn't the case, given the devolution proposals.

Scottish people will be able to decide how things change. They will be able to decide on their own economic policy and their own welfare policies, defence and overseas, environmental, etc. their decisions will take effect more quickly and with more understanding of their impact.

They won't, you know. They will be massively subject to external forces over which Scotland will be unable to exercise any useful level of control because it will be too small and poor to have any sensible bargaining power.

There will doubtless be businesses that move in the event of a Yes vote. Given that corporation tax will be lower in Scotland I wouldn't bet they will all move away or stay away.

But it is nearly impossible to predict the future, for example, not everything in rUK is set to remain the same. If the Tories are returned in 2015, they have promised an EU referendum. If rUK leaves the EU, it will not be advantageous for most businesses to remain headquartered in a non-EU country (about a third of trade done within the EU). At this time, Scotland is likely to be back in the EU or negotiating terms, so it would then make sense for UK businesses which trade in the EU to be based in Scotland.

Now this may not happen, but it is a possibility. The idea that a No vote stands for economic stability must be challenged, it seems to be accepted that the UK has a stable economy and Scotland will be automatically impoverished, even though the UK is a shocking £120 billion in debt, and I suspect the reason why the people who got us there are so desperate to insist we are Better Together is that their own, minimal predictions of oil revenue totalling £200 billion in the next 50 years would come in really handy to pay it off.

Earthwind, the army recruits average around 10.%. But that doesn't include Scots recruited in England or Wales. www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/105452/response/258145/attach/3/20120223%2520FOI%252013%252002%25202012%2520121523%2520005%2520Bryan%2520Final.pdf

No stereotypes, England is ruled by an elite and they have brought the country and arguably the global economy to its knees through feckless banking regulation, devised to meet the needs their cronies.

Loopy My understanding was the issue was the info about someone relocating south in the case of a yes vote was out in the public domain BEFORE it was actually discussed at the board meeting.
So the issue isn't so much about them maybe relocating, but more that someone leaked the info to the press.

Why would relocating be that difficult? Pay enough to the people you want to keep to encourage them to relocate with you, and leave the rest behind. Restaff in the new location. This is what AstraZenaca are doing right now - moving from the NW to Cambridge.

Earthwind, the army recruits average around 10.%. But that doesn't include Scots recruited in England or Wales.

Well Scots in Wales/England may very well stay there. I certainly don't think 10% is a large proportion.

No stereotypes, England is ruled by an elite and they have brought the country and arguably the global economy to its knees through feckless banking regulation, devised to meet the needs their cronies.

rUK isn't just England!!!!!

And don't for one minute think that there isn't elitism in Scotland of course there is.

Englands 'ruling elite' has an awful lot of 'posh jocks' as part of the establishment. Or at they too posh, rich and english to be 'proper' scots?

Rooners Sadly, people are not listening to people like you, it's all 'Fuck Westminster' and very little interest in the reality of it.

The reality of it is that Westminster's fucked, the cuts are only just starting to bite, there will be years more of austerity to buy incentives for big investors like Amazon and banks to exploit us even more.

And thing are going to be different in an independent Scotland how?

I'm bowing out of any thread that starts to discuss whether people will be deported in the event of an independent Scotland. Ridiculous scaremongering. Things between Ireland and UK have obviously not been sweetness and light, yet borders haven't caused issues for people choosing to live in the part they weren't born in; why would it for Scotland?

Daughter - what was your job when you 'worked in politics'?

Daughter, if you seriously believe that England's "elite" is or even may be solely responsible for the global recession, I'm afraid your argument loses all shreds of credibility.

Big Bag English Bogeymen. Sounds a bit like David Ike and his reptiles.

I agree with daughter if the UK was prosperous the Tories etc wouldn't give a toss about Scotland and independence as they would know that without the Scottish left wing bias they would be in control for years but as things are here we are a bit of a sinking ship and not only will it cause carnage economically to start with but it also sends a message around the world that UKPLC is a bad bet which it is

Chunderella it's a lot better than it was. I was in Eastern Europe before liberation and believe me it is a lot better now.

Most of the Eastern bloc countries are doing a lot better than they were before, as Scotland will.

Latte I worked as a researcher for a lobbying company.

Veritata, Margaret Thatcher started the ball rolling with relaxation of rules on the banking system at the same time as smashing the unions which put employees at the mercy of employers greed. The combination of those things, allied with Reagan's similar plans across the pond precipitated this whole sorry mess we are in.

Wooing China in to play their game has also no helped. But yes, it started with Thatcher,assisted and advised by her mates in the Banking sector.

Wildthon, are things going to be different? Yes of course, but you decide how. You carve your own future with your own economic policy. You could choose to go the route of Germany, with long termism, medium sized businesses and localism. You could go the route of Sweden with high tax but low production. You could copy the US with very low tax and high inequality, or you could go communist and make people work in collectives and have no choices at all. The point is that it is your decision and it is the perfect time for this opportunity.

You could always continue along the same lines as the UK and plod on along the austerity route to its bitter end.

EarthWindFire - yes, that's an important point, it does seem that not everyone realises this will be forever, there will be no 'oh well, that didn't work, let's rejoin the UK on the same terms as before' option - If Scotland goes it goes.

It won't be part of the EU to start with, it will have no more right to demand a 'bail out' from the rest of UK than any other non-EU country. It will stand alone.

Pretending there's not big economic downsides to be traded off for self determination isn't helping anyone. Of course lots of companies will leave. Of course it will be expensive. Of course the budget per head spend by the iScottish government will have to fall or they will have to up taxes. There will be job losses, and higher earners going with their employers south of the border. There will be house price falls.

It's not going to be pretty for the first few years, but with decent management, it can be a strong small economy. The amount of sugar coating is worrying because I don't think enough people get what deal they are signing up to.

A yes vote might still be best for scotland, but it's going to hurt in the short term.

"yes, that's an important point, it does seem that not everyone realises this will be forever, there will be no 'oh well, that didn't work, let's rejoin the UK on the same terms as before' option - If Scotland goes it goes."

This is where the comparison to the Crimea might be more apt. A region that left the Soviet Union, but later wished to return to Russia.

Lots of former USSR countries are outside EU. Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kyrgzstan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikiistan. Some have oil or are on key pipeline routes. Some lost Russian investment/expertise (eg the advanced scientific and biotech sectors).

Do any of those countries set a model - desirable or otherwise - for a new Scotland?

Perhaps it would be better to compare new scotland with an old Empire country? Life does go on, these places don't just shrivel into a wasteland when they regain independence.

And of course there will be options to join forces with other countries and nations, even with the UK. Nothing is forever. But you won't need to you have everything at your feet.

I can't believe people still hang onto to the M Thatcher argument! Seriously you need to move on because you really are clutching at straws when you pull that one out! . It's at this point I tend to leave these debates.

Anyway from a personal prospective I think I answered your question Op.

And of course there will be options to join forces with other countries and nations, even with the UK. Nothing is forever.

Right so Scotland wants independence then says 'can we join you' to other nations or go crawling back to rUK saying 'can we come back...Ok. No, nothing is forever but it won't happen in the next few generations.