To think its ok to tell voters that businesses will move south if its a yes?

[Loopylala7]

If these businesses do intend to shift south of the border if its a yes, shouldn't the voters know this is a possible outcome? Why is it considered unfair for this information to be out? Can somebody please explain? Am I being a bit dense?

it's very noticeable that if Union people say, e.g. "you won't get currency union" or "the banks and investment companies which mostly have English customers will relocate to England" it is treated by the Separatists as a threat or bullying in order to whip up anti-English feeing.

But it is in fact fair, true, and obvious.

As an English person who has only a "outside view" I must say I am really put off by the aggression of the "yes" campaign. According to interviews on the television people are afraid to put a "no" in their windows. Sounds pretty ominous and desperate. Also noticed the more needy appear to be wanting a "yes". Is this in the, perhaps mistaken, belief that extreme measures are the answer to hard times. Look at the pre war history of Europe and beware of hardship leading to wrong decisions.
Also, many of the complaints being made by the "yes" voters are voiced on a regular basis by us English. The only difference is that we pay for prescriptions, university education and the care of the elderly. You see we can't afford those things as we are struggling to pay for the extra payments per head that the Scots are lucky to have.

To be honest, can't help feeling that we would be better off without Scotland. At least we would be spared their continual complaints as many down here fear that no matter what they get it will never satisfy them. Must add, heard someone say that their property was not worth the great amount that the south enjoyed. Do they really think that an inability to pay these huge inflated prices is something that young English people enjoy? Home ownership is at an all time low. Of course some benefit, just as some Scots enjoy lower priced property.
However, I wish Scotland a happy future whatever the decision.

Yes to be fair a change in my post would be more accurately this change...I do realize that no voters have a whole load of different reasons for voting no.

BardarbungaBardarbing - that last post was answering you obviously, but I took too long, lol

piglet exactly. Everything the No-ers say is "negative" or "empty threats"
Apparently.

DaughterDilemma: I think a lot of the No vote is driven by people like Chelsy whose husbands have been told that the firm will be moving if there is a Yes vote. It's little short of vote rigging. I hope people see it for what it is, another way for the south to control the north and get the most out of it while giving back the least.

It is not vote rigging. It is companies calculating potential business risk and opting to follow a lower risk strategy.

You see tabulahrasa my difficulty is that I do have certainty and my certainty is that Alex Salmond and his party will cock things up big time if they're allowed to attempt to rule this country. As is probably well known I'm a former Donald Dewar supporter and he would never have dreamed of this divisive and scarring process being allowed to take place. I can see his face in a mask of complete horror now.

The problems created by this referendum which has stirred such deep bitterness within many communities families and former friends may not now go away for generations and will require an immense amount of work to overcome whatever happens on Thursday. I would prefer that that work not also have to take place in a situation of complete financial and social instability.

"firm will be moving if there is a Yes vote. It's little short of vote rigging"

No, it isn't vote rigging. It's a sober and factual acceptance of the truth that English investors, savers and pension-holders will not want their money in a foreign country. Who can disagree with them?

The 'yes' voters seem to be relying more on hope and heart than cold facts. Whatever the outcome, all future ills will be blamed on those who voted for the actual outcome.

This process has brought out the worst in people. The whole 'kids, nag your elderly relatives to vote yes' initiative is just revolting.

Daughter: It's little short of vote rigging. I hope people see it for what it is, another way for the south to control the north and get the most out of it while giving back the least.

the south isn't telling the north to do anything. scottish business are saying they will leave.

Out of curiosity, what is the south getting out of scotland anyway? We can fragment the UK in all sorts of ways. What does London get out of the rUK?

DaughterDilemma: I think a lot of the No vote is driven by people like Chelsy whose husbands have been told that the firm will be moving if there is a Yes vote. It's little short of vote rigging. I hope people see it for what it is, another way for the south to control the north and get the most out of it while giving back the least.

What an absolute bloody cheek. I earn, per hour, more than my husband and am a respected professional in my field. I have, at times, lived apart from him, when doing "stages" or contracts in other areas or countries. Most of us in my field have done Erasmus at least once and lived abroad. I certainly do not see myself as tied to (a) one country to live in, especially if it turns into a financial, social and sexist backwater and (b) my husband's job.

Incidentally, your attention to detail is poor, because my husband has not been told that his firm will be moving if there is a Yes vote. It is our calculation and economic forecast that the company he works for, which is currently fed by investor and UK Government funding, will sooner or later close, because it hasn't yet made a profit and hasn't found a buyer. I should imagine that's the case for quite a lot of small reasonably new companies with new technologies being developed.

Please never, ever talk about me again as if I am a deluded, semi intelligent imbecile who cannot make decisions for myself.

Chelsy - I think I'd like to work with you (if your hubby let's you that is).

Daughter: I think a lot of the No vote is driven by people like Chelsy whose husbands have been told that the firm will be moving if there is a Yes vote. It's little short of vote rigging. I hope people see it for what it is, another way for the south to control the north and get the most out of it while giving back the least.

I have been infrequently reading the thread since my last post. This comment struck me! What decade do you think we live inDaughter? I like to think women have moved on from deferring to their DH before making important decisions such as this. Such a sad state of affairs that you think so little of married Scottish women.

The problem is that for me my yes vote is to do with ideals really

I appreciate that your posts have been rational compared to what I have read from the yes camp in the main and appreciate your honesty. But I will be blunt and say this is what makes my blood boil to the point of no return and is part of the problem that will be faced in the event of a Yes vote. This is not aimed at you personally might I add. It is something I have been thinking about a lot. Everything I believe in, everything I hold dear, all my stability and security and love for my country, will be destroyed. For an ideal? Ideals do not feed people or pay the bills.

I find myself seeing people with Yes stickers and really hating them, refusing to go into businesses because they have a Yes poster in the window. I cannot bring myself to talk to someone at work who is voting yes I find myself so dammed angry. If it is a Yes on Friday how am I going to get out of the house to go to work and speak to people? I will be beyond devastated and utterly furious. How dare they gamble my life, and millions of others, on an ideal? Quite aside from the fact that I think people who vote yes are wrong and blind to reason?

See I am not that person who normally gets so worked up. But that is what this debate has turned people into and it's not going to stop regardless of the outcome. I don't want to be that person but I am afraid after the referendum it won't go away so easily. So much damage has been done. I'm very afraid for the future. And it's just not that easy to pack up and go.

Bloody, bloody cheek. I don't want to take too much time over a comment that was aimed at me personally, but seriously?

I remember how you or your namesake attacked a poster who dared to say she earned a high salary on previous threads, I know perfectly well you are going to attack me for having the temerity to say that I am a professional woman now.

How on earth are you ever going to do anything worthwhile with a mindset like that?

nicename you're most welcome!

Such a sad state of affairs that you think so little of married Scottish women
Bit like that Better Together campaign ad then!

I have very strong ideals too. I think the fact there are foodbanks anywhere in the UK is intolerable. I prefer to be outward looking and try to change things for the better for the whole country.

Proud to be voting No.

Livingzuid - in the end, it is only out ideals that matter. Coming up with a view of a better society, and working toward it, is all we can do to make the world a better place. Perhaps you have a different understanding of ideals though. I am sorry you are so worried about the future. I'm really worried about the future if we continue to be governed by WM. If it is any consolation I believe you are going to win.

Iggi I couldn't care less if you stay or go. I have been surprised by some of the niave thinking behind how industry will react to such an unstable/unknown environment.

Why is that aimed at me, in particular?

iggi I think a lot of us on both sides are afraid about the outcome. Isn't that sad? I don't actually see a no as a win any more although I want that to happen because I really believe Scotland will suffer hugely with a Yes vote. I really do have sympathy with those that want constitutional reform, I do as well. I see Scotland as having led the way in the debate on change and truly believe it will happen. So that will be a very good thing as a result of this vote I guess. But I believe we have to do that change together. I'm very worried about the divisions in society if it is a Yes. On top of all the things that have been said already.

Indeed livingzuid.

Iggi. The first part was in response to the better together coment. The rest was more a generic comment not specifically aimed at you. I should have paragraphed.

Have been lurking on this thread and have been really impressed by the measured and interesting comments of some on both sides (and of course despairing of the nonsense that some people trot out again and again, but such is life - it makes for an entertaining afternoon if nothing else).

I just had a question for tabulah - wouldn't your ideal of a more decentralised government be more easily and efficiently achieved by "devo max" / a further enhancement of the Scotland Act as is contemplated? And without all the unneccessary risk that naturally has many worried about independence?

And just to pre-empt someone that is bound to say that the plans outlined this week have been thrown together at the last minute and smack of desperation, etc, I'd just point out I have been attending symposia and conferences on further devolution for at least 2 years and anyone who knows how policy planning and government work will know these plans have been in the pipeline for a long time. (Though I will say that I think the Better Together campaign have been woefully inadequate in terms of strategy and planning generally - dafties).

Oh and one final point - someone mentioned the cost of setting up new insitutions, etc. in a new iScotland and how expensive it would be. Has anyone seen SNP's estimate of the cost? 250m. And the Scottish Parliament cost an estimated 414m to build. Says it all really.

Nanoo I have no doubt that this is all part of AS's planning strategy, and I think its pretty disgusting that he is using people to whip up a political frenzy on his behalf, when all he really wanted at the moment was DevoMax anyway. How much of this campaign is actually about his "saving face" and putting on a good show? He will know, as a former economist, that an independent Scotland at this moment would be plunged into economic poverty. He knows the markets hate uncertainty and that people have genuine fears about their jobs and homes.

He doesn't care. He and the SNP are mono-issue and they don't care what they do to achieve that. The end justifies all means. The White Paper is full of so many bloopers, some of them are clearly deliberate.

Oh and one final point - someone mentioned the cost of setting up new insitutions, etc. in a new iScotland and how expensive it would be. Has anyone seen SNP's estimate of the cost? 250m. And the Scottish Parliament cost an estimated 414m to build. Says it all really.

Perhaps its a relatively accurate pre-estimate of what funds would be left?