Tell me your honest to god experiences with your newborn

[Mitsufishi]

I am going through hell for the third time around with a newborn.

Everyone says 'sleep when they skeep'. But how? Mine would never sleep, in bed, on me, maybe in a buggy or sling if in constant motion. They all went on to be horrific sleepers so 'this too' did not pass.

My mother says 'all newborns are like that, people who say otherwise are lying'. So it's just me who can't cope then?

Honestly tell me, what was your experience with a newborn. Because I have friends who seem to have had it easy and have seen evidence of it. My mother insists people are lying to show off. But I don't think there's such a fashion for that any more and that actually if anything people often tend to make things sound worse than they are these days rather than the other way around. In any case I've seen friends newborns and babies that effortlessly doze off and wonder a thousand times over what I'm doing wrong.

I think you are underestimating the number of babies who have tongue tie, reflux or some other issue which means they are uncomfortable and/or have feeding difficulties during the newborn period. All of which would fall within your caveat. Contrary to your experience, I know plenty of women who were determined to do GF whilst pg with their first child, and found it didn't work (or not until after the baby was at least 3 months old and that "fourth trimester" stage was over). I also know women, or rather babies, for whom it did work. Those were the "textbook" babies with no issues.

Your view of breastfeeders is also rather sweeping. There are plenty of breastfeeders who don't feed on demand, feed to sleep or use bf as a pacifier. I breastfed my DD according to a routine, not on demand. She was not fed to sleep. She still slept terribly.

Like you, I used to think that parents with badly sleeping children had simply not been firm enough about the routine. Then I had a baby who simply could not and would not follow any sleep routine - because she had digestion pain and was never full due to TT. Feeding and digestion issues are really very common in the first 3 months, which I think you are not acknowledging. You got lucky.

^ to Pistol

Someone said you get a fixed amount of 'trouble' with each child. So if you have a terrible pregnancy and a troublesome baby you will get a delightful teen..etc. Obviously it's a complete load of bollox but I still used to like the thought that I was crossing off the 'bad' times when they were little.

(Btw I know this is a pointless post )

My kids were rubbish sleepers but it soon passes. Now they are teens and in their early twenties they are excellent sleepers, especially when there are chores to be done.

Pistol, sounds to me like you have one child and you haven't been a parent for very long?

I'm going through a hellish time with my third newborn. I can tell you that Gina Ford didn't work for the first one (no colic, no tongue tie....just didn't suit it), but something similar did for the second. And now the third is a totally different kettle of fish again. Babies ARE often fundamentally different to each other..because they are fucking PEOPLE. And I can tell you that when you come to do potty training, sharing, reading and all the other milestones you have yet to reach that children are different here again; what works for one won't work for another.

I know you think that your NCT classes, with all their women who found success with GF, prove that it works for all healthy babies (yes, yes, with the qualification that it doesn't include colicky babies etc), but I suspect we are talking a sample size of under ten (rather than hundreds, which might at least make it robust). And has it occurred to you that those who 'failed' might not be talking about it? Not surprising among a gaggle of know-it-all mums telling them they must be uncommitted if it doesn't work!

Honestly, if you are going to tell us that you are right and others are wrong, fine, but do come back to us when you have a few more children and have gone through a bit more experience. I'm all for sharing stories of what works, but your attitude that your (or rather Gina's) approach is The Right Way, and that babies who won't sleep have been somehow failed by their parents, or that it is mums' own fault for not following a certain routine, is patronising and misguided. You have experience of just one child and have been a parent for all of five minutes.

Ah, yes. The 'you only have one child, what could you possibly know about parenting' brigade (and you say I am patronising). Look, the reason lots of mums find their second or third baby is so very difficult is because they now have multiple kids; no routine is going to work when you are incapable of giving it your all with tots running riot all over the place. I'm not going to give your theory about only having one child any more credence, dily, as your bitterness makes for rather uncomfortable reading, if I'm honest.

Those were the "textbook" babies with no issues. I'm sorry, mini, but such babies do not exist. No baby is born with the perfect predisposition to segue from one of Gina's routines into the next as the months progress. It takes damned hard work and involves the mother engineering certain facets of her child's behaviour: the baby is woken, at appropriate times, from their nap; feeds are structured with quantities varying depending on the time of day; rooms are blacked out completely; eye contact during feeding is minimal; overstimulation is avoided as much as physically possible and naps are largely taken in the baby's cot and not in a car seat on motorway journeys, or in slings or constantly out in the pram. That is accidental parenting and leads to the baby deciding where and for how long he will sleep.

All of this is difficult to implement and will not work perfectly all the time every day. It will, however (notwithstanding illness or tongue tie or SEN) work for the majority of babies if correctly and consistently applied. This is not about only being able to 'do what your baby will let you get away with' but quite the contrary: your baby succumbs naturally to the engineering of your routine.

When I say textbook baby I do not mean they are naturally going to fall into the GF routine. I'm not that daft. I mean babies that feed normally, need the average amount of sleep, and do not have any physical or medical condition (as I said before: diagnosed or undiagnosed - I suspect quite a lot of "unputdownable" babies have some sort of undiagnosed issue, perhaps TT, perhaps reflux, perhaps allergy, perhaps pain of some sort from a difficult birth).

If you have one of these babies then yes you can make GF work. A lot of babies are not like this.

The words "woken from her nap" make me laugh hollowly. My baby always woke within 5-20 minutes of falling asleep, with wind pains. How is that supposed to fit with the GF or any other routine?

You don't need to recite the GF routine to me by the way. I tried it. I practically know the sodding thing by heart. It was as you say bloody hard work and it still didn't work. If anything it contributed to my baby becoming horribly overtired (due to the banning of using prams/boob etc to get the baby to sleep) and screaming for weeks.

Actually most parents find it easier to have bed time routine once they are on the 2nd and 3rd children. Our first slep the worst. By the time the next ones came (we had 3 under 4 years briefly) they have no choice but to fit in ans you have a routine of bath, story bed even if you are then up and down stairs until 10 trying to get them to settle.

In fact our 4th and 5th who also did not really sleep through the night until 3 or 4 years old were easiest as they had an even more fixed routine of a bed time that never varied because the structure had to be there given the cast number of gorgeous children and fact we both worked full time. Also they were twins so that becomes a bit like a little production line - 2 nappies changed at once, always breastfed one on each side even if one had not woken to feed.

Anyway it gets so much easier. Look at today. Saturday. All I've done for any children is wash up some pans for number 4 (he seems to use 4 for his cooked breakfasts at weekends) and I have the drier and washer on. rest of the time I've been working in my office and reading the papers since before 7am. That was never possbile when we had babies.

Rachel Cusk's book on becoming a mother is a good one to read although I don't like it's sexism - she gets lumbered with it all and her husband does much less so in a way her complaints about how hard it is because she did not insist o n more feminism in the home like sensible women do and did not ensure her husband did have the dross stuff. More fool her.

Clearly, you haven't read my post properly. Actually, routine is perfectly possible with more than one. And it was with DS2, as I have said. GF (or something similar) worked. It simply isn't true that having more than one child means 'no routine is going to work' - what a load of old shite. Again, you wouldn't know. This isn't about being patronising. This is fact. You have not experienced it.

The reason GF doesn't work is because it doesn't work for every baby.

And why on earth would I be 'bitter'? Bitter that your parenting approach is superior to mine, maybe?! Yes, that might be it.

The fact is that you have first hand experience of applying the GF routine ONCE. And a load of chit chat from a couple of like-minded mums from a parenting class. And a book. You cannot get away from that. It is all you have. But I am not disagreeing that GF can work. What I object to is that you are stating all the stuff you believe as FACT, based on one experience. And telling other parents they are WRONG. And you are the only person on here doing that. Which is why you aren't getting much support.

But what really worries me is that there will be some mums coming on here looking for help and feeling desperate. And they have to read a load of old claptrap from you about how they simply aren't making an effort. It could be very damaging. Mainly just annoying and preposterous, but for some, it could really do damage.

Dd1= horrendous sleeper
Ds1=no probs
Ds2=no probs
Dd2=asleep on me now. Won't sleep anywhere else. My back is breaking. I am exhausted, it's a nightmare. Hopefully, I will get some sleep soon! (I live in hope)
Your mum is wrong. Some babies sleep! Others don't . Luck of the draw.

Can you show me where I said I was right and all the other mums are wrong? Thanks.

My baby always woke within 5-20 minutes of falling asleep, with wind pains. What, from day one until it was three? What do you mean 'wind pains'? How were you feeing? How often? How did you wind it? Where and how did it sleep? Did you go to the GP with these nasty 'wind pains'? How bizarre

*feeding

It is my belief that, rather than a baby's 'personality' dictating whether a baby eats and sleeps well, it is the mother's.

If you truly cannot see that your posts have repeatedly hammered home your point of view as fact (rather than simply sharing experiences, as everyone else is doing) then you have zero EQ or self awareness.

Pistol, honestly what a lot of bullsh*t. Something worked for you, fine. Something different worked for me,but I am not advocating it as the only right way to raise a child. Good luck with your routines, but please could you stop shoving it all down others' throats? Many thanks.

Oh do fuck off Pistol.

Yes of course I went to the GP. GP agreed she was in distress, wasn't sure why, thought reflux. Got put on reflux meds. Didn't help. Turned out it wasn't reflux it was tongue tie. Known for causing wind. Wind stopped when we got the tie snipped, or thereabouts. Was feeding every 3 hours (less at night) and winding thoroughly. The problem was not (contrary to your implication) down to something I was or wasn't doing, it was a physiological issue. But thanks for trying to make me feel like it was my fault.

Can you please just accept that you don't know everything?

Oh, and by the way, any methods used by me, referred to you as "rod for mother's back" never required listening to my baby cry in another room, which surely goes against most basic instict and biology which you chose to ignore. My daughter never cried to sleep and she falls asleep on her own and sleeps through the night.

DD1 ordinary but I was a bit of a pfb nightmare tbh
DD2 perfect dream sleepy gurgling baby

Mine slept but that's because the wee soul had a brain bleed at birth and was on medication to stop the seizures she is 100% fine now, no lasting effects! my nephew on the other hand seemed to never sleep for longer than 2 hours at a time, he would only settle in a sling or while been walked in a pram but it didn't last forever. You are doing fine and just remember it won't last forever

Mitsu: what's it like? Utter hell. I had a non napper from 3 weeks old, even a very experienced maternity nurse admitted defeat. Until around 11 mths old when the nursery took dd off my hands I really thought I was going to have some sort of breakdown (in hindsight I wasn't of course but was v v unhappy and exhausted).
Dd did improve from around 7 mths but she still slept less and less easily than other babies. The crappest advice I had was to make noise around her when she napped (people will spout any old tosh).

Of course since around 12-14 mths dd has slept fabulously and I utterly adore her (now a two yr old). I still can't look at pictures of her as a baby without awful memories though.

My two were like night and day.

DS didnt nap in the day. He wanted to feed all the time during the day. Literally couldn't get him off my breast, and if I attempted to move him after he fell asleep after a feed, he woke up. He woke up every 3 hours for milk in the night until well into his second year, and didnt sleep through until he was 2.5 yrs old.

I did nothing different with DD, but she slept slept 12 hours a night from 4 weeks old, wanted to feed every 3 hours during the day (then had a nice long nap, would sleep anywhere!) and was just a ridiculously easy baby.

Nobody tells you that babies are little personalities from day one. Theyre all so completely different. All the routines and techniques in the world wouldnt have worked with my first baby. He was high maintenance. Simple as that.

Pistol I think the mistake you're making is in thinking that anyone who doesn't feel GF is right for them is automatically saying that those who use it are cruel and abusive. That's not the case. They just don't feel it's right for them or their babies. You need to stop looking for criticisms where there are none.

For me it's the 'avoid eye contact during feeds' type of thing that makes me feel uncomfortable (I repeat: as a choice for me, not other people). My first year with a newborn was incredibly hard work and extremely sleep-deprived. However it also contained some of the most special and and amazing moments with my baby which I wouldn't swap for twelve months of regimented sleeping and controlled routine. (I repeat again: that's my personal choice.)

Also calling people morons because of their parenting choices is not going to endear them to you!

my view on this is:

• if you have a bad sleeper, don't beat yourself up, it will pass, it's unlikely to be anything you're doing wrong

• if you have a good sleeper, appreciate your good fortune but don't think that what works for your baby is universally applicable.