To believe that it will be a "no" vote in the majority on the 18th?

[Tabby1963]

My reasoning is that, although there appears (from media reports) to be increased enthusiasm for voting "yes" it is not the whole story (they're just shouting the loudest). The noes are the default; and therefore they don't have to say anything or do anything, just vote on the 18th.

My experience having chatted to neighbours, colleagues, friends is that the vast majority (more than 80%) are going to be voting no.

I'm hoping for a no vote, I care hugely about this country and fear the future if "yes" wins. I am certain that if "no" is the majority then I anticipate there will be big changes coming for Scotland, and devolution will continue slowly and carefully.

I totally sympathise with the notion that Scotland does not want the Tories to rule from Westminster and that only by voting for independence will that never happen again, but surely we have to look at the bigger picture here? There is so much at stake to base the future of Scotland and its inhabitants on this single issue?

The fact that people are AFRAID to admit what they intend to vote is deeply deeply worrying.

I would like to put a NO poster in my window, not so much to advertise my vote but to show that there IS an alternative because where I live the Yes campaigners are very vocal.

Children are even being encouraged to wear Yes badges in school
But then, the Curriculum for Excrement is VERY political anyway.

I wont put a Yes poster up though as not only will I get stick at best and a brick at worst, my kids will get thumped in school.

It's really scary atm.

The fact that people are AFRAID to admit what they intend to vote is deeply deeply worrying.

I agree.

A friends young DC was told to 'fuck off back to England' yesterday

My dyslexic sons school have told us (I hope to God not him too....) that 'he cannot spell because he speaks with an English accent like you'. I complained to the LEA. They agreed with school.

I watched a couple in a local hosp waiting room being sneered at by staff and other patients when they spoke in an RP accent. I intervened and was told: 'you are not much better you English cow'.

I sat in a Jobcentre waiting room last week and listened to another person singing: '14 days till we send the fucking English home to stay' to the tune of 'happiness today'. The manager came over and clapped the guy on the back and they started talking about Salmonds 'fucking awesome pasting of that bastard Darling' the night before.

You can complain, aye, but those you complain to are the same.

It is endemic and it isn't going to get better.#
If it's Aye then it will be enfranchised racism,
if it's No then it will be really ugly.

When I have told these stories on some of the other threads I have been told:
oh, you must be very 'unlucky'.

One poster actually told me if my son was bullied for his accent (he has been, by staff as well as kids) it was due to my 'failure to blend in with the locals'.

Of course there is racism on the other side too and that is equally awful.

But its not to the extent I have seen and heard it.
And it is not being enfranchised as we speak.

'Proper Scots vote Yes'
English can fuck off home.
This is the prevailing attitude atm.
It is really really bad atm. My examples are not isolated bad luck.
they are coming from professionals as well as 'jakeys'.

And DD wonders why I'm nervous about her wanting to apply to university in Aberdeen.

She has a slightly posh, nowhere in particular, English accent and perhaps being dyslexic, doesn't pick up other people's.

DD2 does, she'd pass herself off as Scottish in a fortnight. Just as DSIS can sound more or less Welsh depending who's she's talking to.

Any Scot who says that we were told the sky was going to fall in if we voted for devolution in 1999 is speaking out of their rears; it was nothing like that! What we were told a lot by the pro-Scots side was that if we didn't also vote for tax varying powers, the concept of devolution would be illusionary. The Devolution referendum was nothing like this fist-fight...

Well, given that they have never used the tax varying powers we kindly voted for them, I'm not too surprised to see that the SNP want "independence" with no actual financial independence (We are going to keep the pound no matter what - Er no you aren't, if you want independence then you are having independence).

I am a proud Scot who has been living in London since 2001, and at this point, I'm quite glad I'm not living up there, as I don't see it as a nice place... Makes me very sad... But there has always been an undertone of pointing out the English...

Elephants - despite that, I would suggest that Aberdeen is a decent choice, as it's quite a mixed city...

AmberLav

Yes, racism against the English has never been seen as 'real' racism - due to the history the English have always been seen as fair game.

But its got way way worse since 2001.

I think society has got more divided since the recession in general, turning on folks on benefits for example, but Scotland atm is NOT a nice place to be.

elephants Aberdeen is nice but v expensive for property.

Sad to read some of the things on this thread re racism and anti scottish or English feeling.

I think these incidents are rare and not commonplace as people on here are making out.

Amber if you havnt lived in Scotland for 13 years , how can you be glad you are not living her e, how do you know it's not a nice place to be?

It's no wonder there is bad feeling when people speak like you, it's self generated.

Live here , then you can comment on what it's like. Yes you can have opinions but the hypocrisy in your post is laughable.

First choice I really am sad you have heard things and suffered racism, it is unacctable. Why say in one post that racism towards he scots is equally as bad and then in the next post say racism towards the English isn't sen as real racism??

Your post smacks of racism in itself.
Like amber you are generating bad feeling by talking the way you do and generalising in the manner you have.

I live here. The racism is real, and no, it's not uncommon. People know racism is frowned upon, but the referendum has made it more legit to start England-bashing, and that can tip over into English-bashing. Anti-English abuse I've had has been directly related to the referendum, as in "you can fuck off home after the yes vote" type thing.

I really think Scots need to address it, talk about why it's happening and stop saying "Oh I've never heard of that happening" "Oh it's really rare". No it's not. And if Scottish No voters are also scared and being intimidated, as described here, then things really are getting very divisive.

I'm genuinely a bit scared of being out and about on the 19th, whatever the outcome.

I think firstchoice's point is that the same scots who wouldn't dream of being racist based on skin colour, think Anti-English racism is more acceptable. She's not saying is IS more acceptable, but that it's seen that way in Scotland.

And helensburgh your posts smack of minimising and belittlng.

Ah yes space station I genuinely am understanding more from your post.

I didn't mean to sound belittling.

I just think it is a shame normal scottish people are being generalised in this thread as being racist just because they are voting yes.

The racism I know is real and is wrong but Is not widespread, yes if it's happening to you it is a huge deal and is awful but it is the usual numptie a who are being racist, normal people aren't.

I have suffered racism too, but I'm not going to generalise and say the whole nation are racist .

It's insulting.

But nobody is saying that all Scottish people or all yes voters are racist. Of course they aren't and it would be absurd to suggest it.

So, in my case, when you're 100% Scottish through and through and get told to "fuck off down to England" by your kinsmen - is that racist too?

Was told at the weekend to "fuck off back to England" but since I've never lived there, and wasn't born there, I'm not sure how to do that

I think these incidents are rare and not commonplace as people on here are making out.

I think they are happening more than you realise. I know of people that it happening to in completely different parts of Scotland.

It is happening, it is heightened at the moment and just because you aren't experiencing it doesn't mean it isn't.

My friend had to console her young DC for the second time this week for being told to 'fuck off back to England'

That is also insulting.

helensburgh

you are missing my point.

ANY racism is bad.
Anti black, anti Polish, anti English against Scot, anti anything really.
Anti Scot against Scot (ie the current 'real Scots vote for independence and any that don't are not real scots' tosh)

BUT - racism by Scots against the English in Scotland has been laughed off and the English seen as 'fair game' for many years and it is getting WORSE.

My examples are NOT isolated incidents.
Read the boards.
Go online.
Read the papers.
Nobody is saying all Yes voters are racist - BUT -
It IS happening, increasingly, whether you want to 'see' it or not

Also, institutionalised, laughed-off racism is very hard to counter. I know someone who was bullied as a child, when in hospital, by the nurses, for having an English accent (even though she felt herself Scottish). What could she do?

English friends say it is normal to have "English cunt!" mumbled at you when out at the pub etc and someone hears your accent. This is in Edinburgh. But imagine going to the police with that. It's unlikely it would be taken seriously – you'd fear being told it's not really racism, as in black people, and the English have it coming anyway.

When I was abused by shop staff I didn't go to the manager, because what if they felt the same? What if the police felt the same? So you just walk out feeling humiliated.

Earlier on this thread I got caught up in an argument about comparisons between the situation now and the Nazis' rise to power. On the one hand, I think it's wrong to bandy about accusations of full-on Nazi/Hitler behaviour - no, no one is setting up death camps. But it is frightening when you see political nationalism tipping over into racism/tribalism. It does have some very unfortunate precedents and you know, situations like Rwanda and former Yugoslavia, where people who'd previously rubbed along happily suddenly descended into ethnic-based violence, do spring to mind.

And raising these issues is NOT saying that all Scottish people are racist. It is widespread. It isn't rare. But it's not everyone, and no one ever said that.

I have visited Scotland all my life and livd there a while, there was always remarks and jokes about my accent always justified as "banter" and my fault for not taking the joke. In the end you just don't notice or challenge. Most of this was from family but also outside. I have not had any for the last few years of visiting, probably as people I visit have matured and I am more likely to visit restaurants than pubs. I have heard the same south of the border, why bother learning a persons name when I can just call them a "jock". I suppose it does depend on where you live will determine how much you encounter.

Good points, Space esp about institutionalised racism.

The remark my child's Support for Learning teacher made about him being 'unable to spell because of his English accent' for example.
The Deputy laughed, the Head laughed.
The Lead Senior Education Officer said: 'yes, accents can affect spelling'.
We complained to the Dir Education.
A month ago.
Still waiting for a reply.

Taken seriously - I don't think so!
Imagine if a teacher in a mixed race school in Birmingham said: 'you cant spell because your parents have a Nigerian / Pakistani / Scottish accent'. There would be a big fuss. And rightly so.

Not if you are English in Scotland.

All it takes is for good people (the Police, the Education service, the Health Service, the Govornment) to do nothing.... and it allows the evil of racism to flourish.

Tsk." the Government".

See me, I'm English and I cannae spell!

I was just reading about Salmond wanting an inquiry into to why the treasury leaked the fact that RBS would leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote. I can't really understand why he is so outraged. First off I thought everybody already knew that and secondly, if he is so confident that yes is the way to vote, why does it matter? His arguments for the yes vote should be strong enough to counter the concerns about major financial institutions packing up and leaving. I presume he has thought about them.

I also wonder what he stands to gain from a potentially foreign nation holding an inquiry after the event. What is the point? Is it so that if he loses he can say that WM scuppered his chances by revealing the information?

Why is it scaremonger to tell people the facts?

I suspect that rUK won't be rid of the man even if there is a yes vote which is a bit depressing.

I thought it was because leaking thus news is a criminal offence. It should have been presented to stock market first.

And accents can absolutely affect spelling.

I did it myself the other day at work speaking to a Scottish colleague and hearing 'forum' instead of 'form'

Then asking question about said 'forum'

I also had trouble hearing the difference between 'a' and 'e' in certain Scottish accents.

Nothing of course in the same league as a Glaswegian confronted with Doric!

English friends say it is normal to have "English cunt!"

This has never happened to me. Most Scots I know from all walks of life have live and worked in England or have close family friends doing so.

I was thinking of the tendency in some English accents to pronounce words like "drawer" as "draw" (and I've seen the word spelt that way many, many times!). That would affect spelling too.