To think this person should never have bothered having kids?

[doubleshotespresso]

See below link to a local forum with an advert for a part-time nanny all round slave

Doesn't she sound lovely?

www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?25,1385026

So, to edit your OP:

To think this person should never have bothered having kids? may be underestimating the going rate for nannies and may need to employ a nanny and pay seperately for tutoring.

See below link to a local forum with an advert for a part-time nanny all round slave.

Doesn't he/she sound lovely? like he/she should read up on employment law and taxation issues?

Why yes, you might be right.

And so you should!

If you are genuinely that offended I am surprised, it is clear from this thread and. I guess others like it that the use of a nanny is a hotly discussed subject. Strange though how many of you immediately got defensive about being working mothers and fathers' not getting any grief when that was never referred to.... I have not once stated that this family should jot seek help, but I do still believe their expectations are utterly unrealsitic, unreasonable and illegal. They clearly do not intend to treat their nanny with any love or respect if they cannot be bothered to issue her with a contract, holiday pay or job security do they?

And yes Mrs Lion, good and experienced, qualified nannies have huge negotiating power, which logically means they will command far more than the £10 per hour we are all going around in circles discussing here! They are seeking Mary Poppins ( for 2 kids) package on ginger beer money and it stinks. To high holy heaven.

That does not mean though that I or other posters resent, dislike or have no respect for those using a nanny. I resent, dislike and have zero respect who attempt to flout the law,pay below a reasonable salary, avoid tax and contractual obligations and still expect a 5* service from somebody they are expecting to become a key part of the family.

Thing is, Cinnabar, plenty of people don't. I'm glad you treated your nanny with respect, and I hope my nanny thought I did the same. But in my part of town (I'm low-income but this is generally a very wealthy area), most nannies I knew personally (ie as friends, not as potential employees) were treated shockingly. Dodgy practice by middle-class professional parents seemed to be the norm, not the exception. I said upthread that at times I felt like I was the only person emplying my nanny legally, paying NI and tax. I also said upthread that it took a while for me to convince my nanny (Eastern European, very experienced) that when I offered her sick pay and holiday pay, I wasn't offering her charity, as she's never been paid it by any of her previous employers. The dreadful fact is, though you and I have tried to behave well as employers, there are still a lot of exploitative shitlords out there.

It's the pay that makes it so outrageous for what they ask. A demanding post is all very well but must be properly paid!

There are exploitative shitards out there, there is no reason to believe the person who wrote the advert is one. And just because they're offering essentially cash in hand doesn't mean they won't offer sick pay, holidays, give notice etc. I know lots of people who employ cleaners on a cash basis and give them all those perks. Yes, some don't but we don't know the poor woman who wrote the advert is one of them.

They are seeking Mary Poppins ( for 2 kids) package on ginger beer money and it stinks.

The response to the ad has very clearly and vocally suggested that what they are attempting to do doesn't comply with current regulations. I therefore don't think it is evidence that this kind of practice is common or approved of in dulwich. Perhaps people dodge employer's NI on the sly, but I can't tell on from this ad.

However if you can advertise for something in dulwich and make it happen, I would like a cute baby seal trained to make packed lunches.

And it will have to forage for its own food.

"I have not once stated that this family should not seek help"

True.

You said they "should never have bothered having kids" FFS.

generally writing an advert is an action carried by one individual or one person. I doubt two of them typed it out FGS.

But you don't think she's discussed the terms with her husband then? Acted entirely unilaterally?

Because she actually said "this person should never have bothered having kids". Not "they should never have bothered having kids".

TBH the job description and hours look pretty standard to me, apart from the tutoring aspect - they'll not get a candidate with teaching experience I'm sure. all the (fairly standard) chores can be done while the charges are at school.

the pisstake is the wage, which would only work for someone on a cash in hand basis. and the car - very few people earning that kind of wage round there will be running a car, as it's just an impractical luxury due to awful traffic and parking. and you'd expect a wear and tear payment for use of own car.

And the reason it's sensitive for many people on this thread is because we working mothers get asked over and over and over and over again how we manage, and don't we miss our children, and how they're only small for such a short time, and do we feel guilty at working.

But no-one ever asks our male partners the same questions. Ever.

Now that merrymouse is an idea! Ha ha..... I am constantly in knots to create packed lunches that have the right balance and appeal... ??

QunitessentiallyQS I think we have done this to death now.... Have explained myself over and over. Yes title was a bit harsh. Does not though alter the real point of their high levels of expectations . When I said that I meant they clearly expected not to have any time to do child-related stuff and therefore miss out on all the fun stuff, challenges and joys that come with life as a parent. I did not mean that I hated an entire postcode, parents who use nannies or enjoy life/ holidays etc. if you read my posts this has again and again been made abundantly clear! FFS too

Of course it has been done to death!
After quite a lot of back-pedaling.... You have gone from one extreme to the other.

Your point is now that people SHOULD seek help, whereas you started off by explaining how people should not have children if they were outsourcing that much.

they clearly expected not to have any time to do child-related stuff and therefore miss out on all the fun stuff, challenges and joys that come with life as a parent

How on earth can you come to that conclusion when the position is for 3 days per week? Who do you think is doing the other 4 days?

If you come home after 12 hours in work, I think I too would want uniform to be ready for the next day....

My issue with the advert is the low pay. (and the legality of the self employment aspect)

Cinnabar you are not comparing like with like though are you? From your posts you obviously treat your nanny with a great deal of respect and view them as part of your family, paying them properly and affording them proper contractual conditions.

We all struggle with working whilst still being a mother. Of course it is agonising.... Nobody said different. And yes nobody asks the same questions of fathers' but that is a whole other (&infuriating) thread.

I think 3 out of 7 days (for me anyway) would be too significant a chunk to be that far out of the loop.... There are little things I tried to maintain on a daily basis so that we remained an integral part of the dcs routine (tried for morning and evening), in order that regardless of working routines there was always a constant (if mundane sometimes) in their home lives. But that is just me. The advert read to me as if for the 3 days both parents would be pretty much removed from every aspect of their kids who would be ready for bed by the time they got home. May be perfect for this family but certainly would not work for me.

QunitessentiallyQS that is and has been my issue too.whoever irons the pesky uniforms is neither here nor there as long as they get done.

I think 3 out of 7 days (for me anyway) would be too significant a chunk to be that far out of the loop.... There are little things I tried to maintain on a daily basis so that we remained an integral part of the dcs routine (tried for morning and evening), in order that regardless of working routines there was always a constant (if mundane sometimes) in their home lives. But that is just me.

But that's the whole point - it's your line that you've drawn at a place where you're comfortable.

It doesn't give you the right to judge her on her line.

Fuckin' A, CinnabarRed.

As I said upthread, this whole OP smacks of sneering at the 'evil rich mother who dares to employ staff to look after her poor neglected children and who doesn't deserve to be a parent'.

Nasty, OP. Really, really nasty.

I'm so not down with the kids. Is Fuckin' A good or bad?

You mean like you judged me by your comfortable line?

It is about choices yes but responsibly made ones. Self-employed super-nanny on £10 an hour is neither a comfortable or responsible.

You also completely glossed the fact you compare yourself here whilst treating your nanny way better than this family intend to. That is your line and it sounds a good one...

Was just boggling at Fuckin A too! What does that mean?

I'm not judging anyone.

This future employer of nannies may not be that super rich, considering what she can afford to pay.