PIL have a huge gold over us but was this comment too far

[Thisreallysucksass]

I do not want to come across as a ungrateful grabby cow. I am very fortunate.

Long story shortened.

Husband and me met 15years ago his parents had a rental house that we moved into and paid them going rate rent. After a year we approached them and asked if they would consider us buying the house as we loved it. They said yes, but husbands bad credit/ccjs and low wages from both parts meant we couldn't get a mortgage. They said they would let us buy the house with the money we were paying them rent. So that's what we have done. We are very grateful towards them for the generous offer. We have now 15years later paid off the house.
We are expanding our family so have been looking to move, we are moving very close to the PIL, we got a good valuation on our house but the area we want to move to is expensive so we are pushing our limits with what we can borrow. Mil approached me before our house viewing (I am very close with her we speak every day on the phone and they see the DC often)

She said they had been looking for a rental to set them up for there retirement and would we consider this. They would like to put a good Chunch of there money down as a deposit ( less than the value of our current home) on the new house we were certain we wanted to buy. They we keep the house we are in rent it out then spilt the rental amount we will get with them. (The house has got a good rental fuigure due to the renovations we have done) they were very happy with that arrangement and I was to manage the property for them. We spoke and it sounded a great offer and it means we would able to live comfortably I manage the property and they take half the money. Seemed good.

So we have decided to buy the other house but the owners are not in any hurry to move it could be a long while yet. We have involved them in the process.

We went for another viewing yesterday and FIL came, we met the owners of the house and they showed us round the house. FIL will chat to anybody and was telling them about the property they already own.

In earshot of both of us he said "well we have already bought them a house and now we are buying them this one" the owner of the house looked embarrassed and I was gutted by this comment and bit my tounge thinking we are very fortunate and they have been very generous to us. We left shortly after. When we got home I was very quiet and spoke to husband about it, he said his dad was out of order and that it was very hurtful to him what he said. His mum (who does brag about money / possessions) has been telling all her friends infront of husband that they are buying us a new house. He didn't correct her.

Everyday I speak to MIL she reminds me how lucky we are and says how great full we should be, I reassure her we are very much so. But it is brought up all the time. We have bought them a lovely gift to show them how great full we are but this isn't going to go away they have a hold over us.

Now we are considering talking to them both and telling them we feel worthless and see what happends. But we are really thinking to go with our original plan of selling up and doing it our selfs.

So am I being unreasonable at these comments? Shal we speak to them or put up and shut up?

How is the OP coming across as ungrateful?
They paid rent to the parents, instead of a mortgage company, and paid off a lump sum as well.

There was no living rent free was there?

Go it alone , we are moving and my mum offered to loan us the extra £100k . I refused as much as she is lovely I don't want to be in debt to her .

Rent free as in unless they are going to pay the full amount the house was paid for they kind of have. Unless they paid enough rent to cover whatever in laws could of made at rental value pulse the value of the house ontop of that.
To be fair, in laws offered this, they shouldn't make the comments at all, that isn't fair but op has been lucky, I realise that she sees this, but not many people could afford to pay rental value and save/ pay off a house at the same time.
Depends how much the house was worth I guess :)

Thing is, they have done you a favour. Effectively, they've bankrolled your mortgage. That's quite common. Happens in my family. Deposit gifted over 6 years ago. Times mentioned since: 0. Yes, they would have benefitted financially by not helping out their son and his family. Again, that's normal.

I think I would feel uncomfortable in this scenario. I understand your husbands point about gifting them some money. Doesn't this then undermine the point of them helping you in the first place though? And kind of reinforce their view that you owe them something that you can't repay. I would bet that if you offered them £10k, the first thing said would be "they owe us much more than that".

My advice would be move to a cheaper area and become independent.

"not many people could afford to pay rental value and save/ pay off a house at the same time."

Correct, most people get a mortgage. The PILS own son wasn't financially responsible enough to get a bank mortgage. So his parents gave him one. Simples.

My points been missed completely.
Too tired to try again.
Good luck OP.

My guess is they will have massive expectations of you as they become old and frail.. Repayment of a different kind?

My guess is they will have massive expectations of you as they become old and frail..repayment of a different kind?

Sorry, double post.

I am a little confused as to the "new" arrangements about splitting the rent with you. Presumably they will be buying half your current house so they can receive half the rent less any expenses otherwise if all the rent goes into you and your dhs name then you and your dh will be responsible in paying tax on the whole income.

Also if they gift you the money and die within a certain period of time then, I am quite happy if someone more knowledgible comes along, wouldn't you be charged with death duties on the gifted amount.

Personally I would think that you have been lucky so far in keeping a reasonable relationship with your PIL so I would not push it just so you can live in a nice house. Unfortunately no one has a crystal ball and the nice house could end up a mill stone around your neck.

The question to ask yourself is if you were to buy with PILs help would you be free to sell and move to somewhere miles away with the PILs blessing and how if that house goes up in value how much would they be expecting back.

Why do you have to pay them a lump sum now? Why is he talking about cutting off from them? do you just mean financially or does he mean he is actually going to cut contact with them?

Surely there is middle ground here. You just say we don't want to move to the big house that you cannot afford. You don't give PIL any extra money, you simply sell your house and buy another.

You/DH seem to be making this overly complicated tbh.

Keep your finances separate.

I have had to put my foot down recently with my reasonably nice MIL showing people around my house. It used to be hers but we bought it outright of the PIL and did it up. She thought it was okay to show her friends around as the builders are still in but I have made the boundaries very clear. It's my house, not hers now and she needs to respect that.

Good luck. You'll feel better once you get things sorted.

I think it's all about what you are personally willing to accept. I sacrificed a lot of pride to keep a roof over my families head, very different circumstances mine was a case of me having a work redundancy situation, I took a sideways step (pretty much demotion) to keep a roof over my families head, (accommodation came with job). If it was just me or just me and dh I would have gone to a tribunal for sure, with what my solicitor said was a v v solid case.

It's all very well saying you should put financial independence over all else, but at the end of the day life is about balance. Can you live with a little gossip to give your dc a better standard of living, ie not having to watch every penny? Can you actually stand up to your PILs and the local gossips and say what's what and that they didn't actually buy your houses?

I generally agree with with those saying cut them loose and go it alone, but in this this case I think you and your dh have to have a truthful conversation about what you would really like, and what you are prepared to put up with to have it. And there's nothing wrong with that.

In the OP's shoes I'd feel a bit hard done by because it wasn't her debts and ccjs that stopped them buying in the first place. I do think a gift should be freely given and this doesn't sound like it was. If your in-laws are nice and they sound it could you not talk to them about their discussing your financial affairs with other people. I wouldn't be compensating them for the favour they have done you. I would acknowledge openly that you're very grateful but move towards being independent of them.

Only read op.

The way I see it is they want to buy half of your current house from you so you have equal shared ownership and split the rent profit.

With the money they pay you to buy their half you can do what you want with it. In this case put it towards buying a new home.

All depends on how you look at it.

I think you need to just stay where you are for now and let the whole matter drop. Inlaws can make their own arrangements to buy a rental house.

If you go ahead with this plan your inlaws will clearly view both your current house and the new house as theirs. Whatever you do , do it independently of them.

Seems like you have the opportunity to make this work out to everyone's advantage, including theirs. And if your husband is an only child he'll be the main beneficiary in the long term so its not as if the money will be going anywhere else.

Could you speak to your MiL and say yes you are lucky, and appreciative, but that you are hurt that they are talking about your financial business like this, and especially as it makes you look like a sponger. It's not on.

And perhaps its time to get to independent financial advice? Re tax and inheritance planning etc.

Op and her DH rented a house from the in-laws for a year, then the in-laws effectively agreed they could buy it from them and loaned them the virtual money to do that. So for 15 years they weren't really renting, they were re-paying a loan.

Now the in-laws are proposing that they buy back a share of that house (we don't know what percentage). Then the two couples rent it out and split that rent. I hope the plan is also to split all the expenses of renting, there is a lot of money to be lost as a landlord as well as gained...

The Op and her DH will have enough money, from the sale of a portion of their existing house, to go and buy their new one. So really, this purchase of their new house has nothing to do with the FIL. They could just as easily have sold their current house and purchased the new one using the profit for a deposit. I can't quite work out why that has changed if FIL drop out, but I think it might be because DH has re-calculated the sums.

Personally I think that if you agree to enter into this new business arrangement with them involving your own house that would be fine and enough of a repayment for their favour in the past. You'd be managing an enterprise that would bring them in a monthly income, and of course you as well. But - they'd need to understand that they had no stake in your new house because they aren't giving you money for it - they have purchased a slice of your existing property.

I wouldn't do it, I see too many complications ahead, but if you do then I'd just have to have a conversation with them about how you would be becoming business partners and they need to stop this gossip about your finances, which isn't even true.

I don't think you owe them any part of the equity from your current property because that wasn't the agreement you entered into. As said above, you don't give your mortgage company extra when you finish repaying the loan. The are wealthy and did you a favour, that's really lovely and that's where it ends.

From your PILs point of view if they hadn't offered to let you buy the house off them, they would have had years of rental income (as much or more than you paid them) and still owned the house. So I can see how they consider that they bought the house for you. And since it's only the value of this house that is allowing you to buy a bigger one (and they are putting money in) I can see how they can say that they are helping you to buy that one too. I suspect that without heir help there is a very real possiblity that you would still be renting.

Sounds like they want to get back to the positiion they would have been in if they'd not made their house offer to you. So in the interests of fairness I think you go along with it, or you offer them a substantial sum to allow them to do it indepedendently.

But the difference is they did offer to sell the house to them years ago. With that offer, came the loss of all rights to the house. They acted as a mortgage lender.
This was obviously the case as all the paperwork supports this. They helped their son to buy his home. They now can't claim they bought it for him. They helped him get a foot in the market, but they did not buy it for him.

I think both of you should have a word with them about how it has made you feel. Depending on how that goes down, you can then decide to proceed with the new arrangement or not.

If you do decide to go ahead, make it very clear they are buying out half or whatever percentage of the old house and you are buying the new house on your own with your own money. You are in effect selling your old house and going into business together.

It is now a business arrangement, not them helping you out.

If it doesn't actually work like that, and they are still effectively helping you out, then you'll have to suck up the comments or leave things as they are. I'd definitely talk to them though. They may be genuinely upset to think they have made you feel awful.

just swallow your pride and go with it, who cares what people think, most of them will just be envious that they don't have parents / PIL that can help them out. I do however think you need to ask PIL to stop discussing it with anyone as its offended you. clear the air hen go ahead with the plan that seems to benefit you all.

I don't know about this. Did you pay rent AND the mortgage payments?

Your PIL had a rental property so had a source of income, they lost that when your rental payments became your mortgage payments I.e if you could have got a mortgage and bought a different house your PIl could have found other renters and payed off the mortgage and would now own the home outright themselves and be earning rent.

They are financially worse off no? I think they did kinda buy you the house and you are being over sensitive. I wouldn't care what others thought, it's not that people think you are too poor to afford your own house just a bit jealous you have help. Lots of rich people I know have had help, I don't see it as a failure on their part just that they are very fortunate that their parents are in a position to help.

I also don't understand the sums. If your current house is worth more than PIL are offering surely you would have more money/bigger deposit for the new house if you sold the current one.

Oh good grief, the parents chose to stop getting rent from the house and instead to let their son and his wife buy it from them. That was the agreement. They were helping out, as more wealthy people sometimes do, but it wasn't a gift, it was a loan. The fact that they chose to lose the rental income is neither here nor there.
If they'd decided to part rent, part loan that would be different - but they didn't.

If they'd decided to set up an agreement for them to gain from future equity on sale it would be different - but they didn't.
The house belongs to Op and her husband outright, with no ties against it's value. If they sell it, or any portion of it, the proceeds are theirs and nobody else's.