PIL have a huge gold over us but was this comment too far

[Thisreallysucksass]

I do not want to come across as a ungrateful grabby cow. I am very fortunate.

Long story shortened.

Husband and me met 15years ago his parents had a rental house that we moved into and paid them going rate rent. After a year we approached them and asked if they would consider us buying the house as we loved it. They said yes, but husbands bad credit/ccjs and low wages from both parts meant we couldn't get a mortgage. They said they would let us buy the house with the money we were paying them rent. So that's what we have done. We are very grateful towards them for the generous offer. We have now 15years later paid off the house.
We are expanding our family so have been looking to move, we are moving very close to the PIL, we got a good valuation on our house but the area we want to move to is expensive so we are pushing our limits with what we can borrow. Mil approached me before our house viewing (I am very close with her we speak every day on the phone and they see the DC often)

She said they had been looking for a rental to set them up for there retirement and would we consider this. They would like to put a good Chunch of there money down as a deposit ( less than the value of our current home) on the new house we were certain we wanted to buy. They we keep the house we are in rent it out then spilt the rental amount we will get with them. (The house has got a good rental fuigure due to the renovations we have done) they were very happy with that arrangement and I was to manage the property for them. We spoke and it sounded a great offer and it means we would able to live comfortably I manage the property and they take half the money. Seemed good.

So we have decided to buy the other house but the owners are not in any hurry to move it could be a long while yet. We have involved them in the process.

We went for another viewing yesterday and FIL came, we met the owners of the house and they showed us round the house. FIL will chat to anybody and was telling them about the property they already own.

In earshot of both of us he said "well we have already bought them a house and now we are buying them this one" the owner of the house looked embarrassed and I was gutted by this comment and bit my tounge thinking we are very fortunate and they have been very generous to us. We left shortly after. When we got home I was very quiet and spoke to husband about it, he said his dad was out of order and that it was very hurtful to him what he said. His mum (who does brag about money / possessions) has been telling all her friends infront of husband that they are buying us a new house. He didn't correct her.

Everyday I speak to MIL she reminds me how lucky we are and says how great full we should be, I reassure her we are very much so. But it is brought up all the time. We have bought them a lovely gift to show them how great full we are but this isn't going to go away they have a hold over us.

Now we are considering talking to them both and telling them we feel worthless and see what happends. But we are really thinking to go with our original plan of selling up and doing it our selfs.

So am I being unreasonable at these comments? Shal we speak to them or put up and shut up?

I can understand why you felt humiliated by the comment, I hope that wasn't the intention. It's a difficult situation as I can see the benefits of the arrangement in terms of the bigger house but personally I'd rather feel financially independent. However I have to say I think very few of the other people that your PIL are telling would be judging you negatively. If someone told me that I'd either think that the PIL were doing a kind thing (if I generally thought they were decent people) or that they were boastful twats (and tbh from the way you describe how they've spoken about it probably the later). I wouldn't make any judgment about the adult children who they were 'helping out' though.

I really need to work out our finances on this. If we loose the house then so be it. If we do turn down this offer (it's beneficial to both party's and the rental income even split is worth more than them purchasing there own rental) it feels like we are saying shove the money.

I really do want to speak to MIL and tell her we are very upset and hurt by the comments. Without being nasty and getting into a argument but to tell her how we feel. I've slept on it and I'm still upset and offended. I feel bloody worthless.

But they have a hold over us and they could reject there offer.

I'm dreading her phone call. It feels like they know something is up as they usually call by now

I can see why the comments have made you uncomfortable, but I think being hurt and feeling worthless is a complete over reaction.

If they thought you were worthless, they wouldn't be helping you out to this extent.

Like they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch, and you have been treated very generously. If you don't want the (truthful) comments, then don't do the deal.

Well it's your choice really, either you suck it up and spend the rest of your life feeling beholden to PILS and having them shove it in your face and tell anyone they like all about it.

Or, you buy a cheaper house much much further away from PILS and live like independent grown ups.

I agree with floralnomad to some extent. PILs say a lot of silly things, and often tend to get involved in attention seeking/gossip/intra-family intrigues, etc. 98% of the time it is not worth falling out with them.

However in your particular circumstances I would definitely worry about getting into another arrangement with them:

1. Is this whole thing concoted by them because they want to make sure that they keep you dependent on them, or keep your DH in a position where they can control him?

1. Your MIL repeatedly telling how lucky you are seems totally ungracious and out of order.

1. If you are going to do a deal with them to buy something together and/or split rent, you should put your foot down absolutely and insist on getting a solicitor to draw up an agreement. It doesn't matter how ungrateful you might look, it is about ensuring your kids have a stable place to live. I would consider this normal among family members, to avoid disagreements and a bust-up later. It shouldn't cost more than a few hundred pounds, and the solicitor may have good suggestions as to a good way of doing it that benefits you all in financial/tax terms.

OP I have suffered with this for 13 years with my parents. Now we have sold up and bought our own home with our own money they have stopped about that, but started about other things controlling fuckwits

I am practically permanently on edge now and am in the process of trying to sort myself out and go NC.

They are my parents though and controlling in many ways.

Am I the only one who remembers this thread or one very like it? Have you posted about the situation before OP?

I agree the remark was perhaps less than tactful, but after all it was nothing more than the truth

Could I ask if your upset reflects, not so much what was said as your own discomfort with the situation?

You just need to chose.
Do you want the new house or do you want to be financially independent.
It seems you can't have it both ways so you must chose what is most important.
All this talk of humiliation and having a word with mil about your hurt feelings is not really necessary and will only cause bad feeling.
Personally I would live in a small house rather than negotiate hurt feelings and embarrassment to get a bigger one.

"They said they would let us buy the house with the money we were paying them rent. So that's what we have done. We are very grateful towards them for the generous offer. We have now 15years later paid off the house."

So, from the PIL's point of view, they owned an asset and got an income from it in the form of rent. 15 years of 'rent' later they no longer own the asset. Is that what happened? Or did they ever receive a lump sum?

Is the house you have been paying "rent"/"mortgage" for in your name now?

Are you sure?

If so, time to become independent!

Truffles - no I've never posted about this before.

Puzzled - it wasn't the truth, that's the reason why we are put out by the comment. We bought the house by paying in rent every month, we own the house now, they have not bought us this house.

Whereyouleft - yes that's what happened. We paid a fixed some over 15years. I paid the remaining amount owed with a lump sum that I got from inheritance, and with the rest we improved the house with.

We have had a bit of bad feeling over this in the past as even tho we jointly paid for this property they did want to put the property into his name only, I had to put my foot down and they did admit they were out of order on that because I would have no assets in my name.

You are all right The more i think about all this we need to get out of this pretty quick of this arrangment.

I'm going to talk to my husband and see what he thinks he wants to do.

How old are your husband's parents ? Are they as altruistic as they seem ?
Might there be a situation somewhere down the line where they need looking after ?
Supposing one of them died and the other one wanted to come and live with you ? It might be hard to refuse if they were part owners of the house.

conferencepear is wise.

Well I was not expecting my Husband to say this.

After working out our finances we can't really afford the new house as my hours have been cut. We would just scrape by each month by the skin of our teeth with no treats or extra money. So without the PIL help we can't move. That's ok by me we will get over it.

My husband loves the house and he really wants to move. He said he's annoyed at what's been happening very much so. But he wants to move.
He said if we were to cut ties we should offer then some more money, as the house is now worth considerably more than what we paid. However I agree to an extent but we have done a major renevation that has cost us a lot so we have added value as well. my point is you wouldn't say to your mortage lender at the end well the house has increased so we will give you extra.

I have said that I think it would be a nice gesture, and we should give them a small payoff to cut them loose. No more than 10k. He thinks if we go this route we should offer a substantial amount he thinks 40k then they could take a small mortgage out and have this house back to rent or do what they please.

However if we were to do that unless we relocate to a much cheaper area we still can't afford anything much bigger than what we have.

He said he doesn't think his parents will accept this but he wants to use this as a we are offended but try to smooth it over and still accept there offer. Or he has said we should shut our mouths and say nothing.

Not happy at the way he is behaving. Sigh, ever more confused now

So in reality all you have actually paid for this house is whatever the lump sum was that you gave the Inlaws ( and the cost of any improvements)- the rent to pay it off is not relevant as they would have been getting that if they had rented to somebody else ( and still owned the house) . I agree with your husband ,if you want to really say you are financially independent ,you probably owe a lot more than 10k . For example if the house was worth £100,000 when you moved in and the lump sum you gave them was 20k and improvements 20k ,in effect you still owe 60k ,irrespective of what the house is worth now. I think you are a little deluded to how lucky you have been ,unless of course the lump sum was equivalent to the value of the house at the time the original arrangement was set up.

I would never accept any financial help from my very rich in laws. If they try to give us money I actually hand it back, if it comes with "but we got you this" it's definitely not worth it.
Buy something that's entirely yours even if it is less than you could get with in laws help and enjoy the fact it's yours.

I think that offering your PIL £40k on the basis that they will never accept the money is an incredibly risky strategy that you really shouldn’t pursue. In their shoes, I’d be so irritated by your criticism that I’d accept the money just to see you squirm! Of course they shouldn’t have been spreading your financial affairs around their village but to be fair to them, by selling their investment property to you at cost they missed out on the opportunity of benefiting from the increase in property prices or alternatively from receiving genuine rent (as opposed to receiving a deferred sale price) for the property. If they had received genuine rent they would have accumulated a very nice nest egg over 15 years.

But...
Have I got this wrong?
You payed rent? To pay for the house & the time you lived in it you'd have to pay rent & the money for the house? No?
They've done you a huge favour, you've basically lived there for free whilst giving them money towards buying the house.
Apologies if I'm wrong.
But I wouldn't accept this of someone unless I knew they wouldn't make me feel guilty at all or make comments at all, which most people do.

Hmm. You essentially have nice IL you get on well with and you could argue that renovation aside, they do deserve some of the house price appreciation as without their help you'd have bought much later. Tbh, I think you are making life hard for yourself. I'd get dh to have a quiet word about their blabbing stuff around to people and just carry on with the deal as it sounds to me like your best bet. I'd be thinking about my kids and not my pride. I sympathise with people who say to cut them off, get independent etc if they were not otherwise nice and close to you. In your shoes though, I'd try and leave the walking away aside and resolve the hurt feelings.

Did you pay a commercial amount for your house (i.e. value 15 years ago plus a reasonable rate of interest)? If so, he is crazy offering them a slice of the sale proceeds. They sold you the house 15 years ago. They aren't entitled to the capital appreciation, the original capital or any value you added through improvements.

We have had parental help to buy our house. My mother does make the odd comment about how she thinks we could decorate, but I think she would do that anyway. They never mistake who owns our house and wouldn't dream of discussing any of our personal circumstances with anyone.